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China Crafts Cyberweapons
Posted by
ScuttleMonkey
on Mon May 28, 2007 02:11 PM
from the virtual-arms-race dept.
from the virtual-arms-race dept.
MitmWatcher writes to mention that a recent report by the Department of Defense revealed that China is continuing to build up their cyberwarfare units and develop viruses. "'The PLA has established information warfare units to develop viruses to attack enemy computer systems and networks,' the annual DOD report on China's military warned. At the same, Chinese armed forces are developing ways to protect its own systems from an enemy attack, it said, echoing similar warnings made in previous years."
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Sensible (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sensible (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sensible (Score:5, Interesting)
Yeah, cyberspace (I know, played out term, but it's common vernacular now) is a place (kinda) where strategy can be applied to hamper an enemies war fighting potential. Not only that, it can be the equivalent to infrastructure destruction when targeted at the private sector. Yep, all that advantage without firing a shot, without having to wait for resupply of ammunition and without putting a single person within killing range of the target.
In other words, this is common sense.
Parent
Notable: SharedSource (Score:5, Interesting)
It is notable here that China is one of the state entities that enjoys access to the source code for Window under Microsoft's SharedSource program. If you're in IT for a government agency in the US, it's your duty to ask 'what does China know about my critical infrastructure that I don't know?'
Unfortunately for the people who rely on you, the answer is undiscoverable.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
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That doesn't prove a conspiracy theory or anything, but it was probably a good idea anyway! Smart thinking, and I wish that the US government did the same thing. Red, White, and Blue Linux has a good ring to it.
You are right (Score:3, Insightful)
TFA is about China. Don't try to read anything into my comment that isn't there. I can be enough of a controversial jerk all by myself, thanks.
OH NOES! (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:OH NOES! (Score:5, Insightful)
Not a change. China holds too much of our debt, and is too crucial for our economy. Also, China historically is mostly interested in China. Kinda makes for a poor enemy.
Parent
Re:OH NOES! (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, but their definition of "China" includes Taiwan, Tibet, and the Spratly islands.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Besides that a couple of years ago China's political leadership and military leadership both told the press that if they DID go to war with the U.S. they would immediately resort to nuclear weapons, because they know they couldn't win conventionally.
No, even if that's all bluster, it's still too much ri
Re: (Score:3)
The Spratly's are disputed to us... but to the Chinese it's theirs and others are just interfering.
China has made no secret of the fact that they believe Taiwan is theirs, and that they tolerate Taiwan's independence only because they are currently unable to take it back by force and crush the "counter-revolution" there. It is also technically a apart of China, even if it is practically separate. A
Cowboys (Score:4, Funny)
The gate blurred past. He laughed. The Sense/Net ice had accepted his entry as a routine transfer from the consortium's Los Angeles complex. He was inside. Behind him, viral subprograms peeled off, meshing with the gate's code fabric, ready to deflect the real Los Angeles data when it arrived."
From Neuromancer, by William Gibson, following protagonist Henry Dorsett Case as he uses a Chinese military-made icebreaker to hack a virtual fortress...
If only computer security were really so dramatic
Good.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yes, but the death and destruction only satisfies for a few hours and then you are hungry again.
And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:And yet... (Score:5, Insightful)
Do you not think it better to trade with countries and develop strong relations with them? You have another strategy?
Parent
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Interesting)
Have you been offline for the past decade? Chinese attacks on US networks aren't some nebulous possibility; they've been going on for years. Quite a few articles about it have shown up right here on Slashdot.
As for the US's military spending, that annoys me because it gets blown kicking over some dictator in the Middle East or chasing "terrorists" who kill less people than cars, instead of preparing for and dealing with real threats.
No, not while they're attacking.
Parent
Good for the gander (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:And yet... (Score:4, Insightful)
Have you been off line for the past decade? Chinese attacks on US networks aren't some nebulous possibility; they've been going on for years. Quite a few articles about it have shown up right here on Slashdot.
The article is about investing in cyberwar attack and defense in general, not about launching specific attacks. Yes, Chinese hackers have been targeting US systems and UK systems (and other western nations) for some time. And I imagine that there are US and UK hackers targeting Chinese systems. This is not a declaration of war; this is just business as usual.
As for the US's military spending, that annoys me because it gets blown kicking over some dictator in the Middle East or chasing "terrorists" who kill less people than cars, instead of preparing for and dealing with real threats.
I don't disagree with any of that!Parent
Parent is not a troll... (Score:5, Insightful)
His comment is not particularly insightful, but his assertions are defendable:
Slashdot has reported on attacks apparently coming from within China (titan rain), and attempts by China to disable U.S. spy sats (ground based laser something or other).
The U.S. government continues to grant China 'Favored Trade Nation' status and facilitate the offshoring of work... esecially in manufacturing despite continued resistance from China to enforce safety/humanitarian regulations in those industries (something we require from our other top trading partners, though not from the poorer ones).
The U.S. government continually ignores international organizations such as Amnesty International who attempt to open dialogue about human rights records.
So now China is creating systems designed to realign the BOP on the net. How will the U.S. react? If it's track record holds true, then the U.S. will not react... which is really puzzling. True, if we have it, then others should not be prohibited... but that is now how we treat the non-chinas of the world.
The only disputable or inflamatory statement made by parent is that he actually feels sick about this.
Regards.
Parent
not war just scare tactics (Score:4, Interesting)
not so much war as it is to prevent the US or other capitalist/democratic countries from undermining their regime. china is a known source of some cyber attacks- mainly from less organized hackers but now that it will be more organized- more bang for the buck. they probably wont try to destroy our systems completely as that would likely have a ripple effect on their economy as well- they sell a lot of stuff to us and where they to screw that up it would hurt them quite dearly. there is one thing that we have that they dont and that is oddly enough sheer number- if i remember correctly we out number them in computing power so if we ever needed to we could do a real DOS attack from hell on them.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
In a shooting war, a DOS wouldn't work, certainly not against China.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I liken this to the uproar about China developing space based weapons. Um, weren't the US doing it first?
I'd see this more as a sign that China is catching up with the US in t
OK Here's the Plan (Score:4, Funny)
2. Half a million Peoples Liberation Army Cyberwar Programmers attack!
3. ???
4. Profit?
US military has one too: USAF Cyberspace Command. (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123030505 [af.mil]
Re:US military has one too: USAF Cyberspace Comman (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:US military has one too: USAF Cyberspace Comman (Score:5, Insightful)
By developing cyber weapons, US is defending freedom everywhere.
By developing cyber defenses, China is destablising the world.
By having computers, Iran is sponsoring terrorism.
To be serious about it, how can anyone be surprised that a major country is concerned about cyber-security?
Parent
And they both use Windows (Score:3, Funny)
"Crafting Cyber-Weapons" (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine the following: (Score:5, Funny)
Suddenly, the huge video conference screen on the wall springs to life. A stern Chinese communist party official appears in a smart beige chairman-Mao suit. The shouting and arguments stop and an eerie silence descends. All eyes turn toward the Chinese official.
He speaks.
"How are you today gentlemen? All your base are belong to us."
Know how your stuff works!!! (Score:5, Insightful)
Honestly, I am so frustrated with this "its someone else's responsibility to make it work" and other finger pointing paradigms. Its MY stuff, I bought it with legal tender, and if I don't know how to maintain it, do I really have that much business having it?
If my dog made a mess, its obvious to me just what he did and where he did it. If termites made a mess, I can find and put back what they messed up. I feel exactly the same with my computing apparatus, and I highly resent efforts by others ( via DMCA like legal maneuvering ) to keep me ignorant of how my stuff works. It frustrates me to no end to have others make knowledge illegal, enforceable by police at gunpoint, only for the financial gain of blocking off alternative remedies I have for maintenance or customization needs.
Having ANY software vendor locking me in to their "support" is like having the contractor who built my house locking me in for anything I want to do to maintain or modify my house.
Not to say I would want to deprive him of his art of driving nails, but if he was too hard to get along with, or overprices himself, I strongly reserve what I feel is my right to pick up the hammer and saw and do it personally, if need be.
Ignorance is going to be the end of us (US).
Re:Know how your stuff works!!! (Score:4, Interesting)
I largely agree with you. This is why I have decided to go on an open source only diet. Believe me, I am the richer for it. I haven't run Windows since the waning days of Windows 2000 Professional. I have found that FreeBSD and OpenBSD can satisfy almost every computing need that I have, whither it be a minute task or a more advanced routing solution. I like having control of my computing environment. Knowing how my computers and operating systems work have saved me from making purchases based on sales propaganda or FUD. Knowledge really is power. When I hear Microsoft's Get the Facts, I yawn in boredom and can't help wonder how many punters will buy into it.
Really, it comes down to our educational system to help stop some of the ignorance. Colleges should mandate more than just basic computer use courses. There should be a tuple of classes covering basic computer use, basic networking, and basic security. Just like some Comp and Info Sci programs require taking business classes, Business programs should require Info sci classes. If management were wiser to computing, they might listen when their IT professionals make a serious recommendation.
Parent
Richard Clarke on Countdown (Score:4, Informative)
Countdown with Keith Olbermann in January '07.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16771741/ [msn.com]
My Summary:
http://politics.slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=1806
Haha. And the US does not do this ? (Score:5, Insightful)
"'The US has established information warfare units to develop viruses to attack enemy computer systems and networks,' the annual PLA Defense departement report on USA's military warned. At the same, US armed forces are developing ways to protect its own systems from an enemy attack, it said, echoing similar warnings made in previous years."
This leave me wondering with such a NON-news, what sort of propaganda is theUS trying to kick up. Are there commercial negociation starting soon with China ? Are they trying to put some pressure on China for a better rate ?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting (Score:3, Informative)
Coupled with anti-satellite weapons and a developing blue water navy - One could say they are preparing for conquest.
The rewards are enormous. China could completely destroy our networks and economy in a single day with a well coordinated strike.
That's not enough time to move our forces and fight back.
What is DOD doing? Spying on their citizens and making life a living hell for Iraqis.
Solution to Cyberwarfare (Score:4, Informative)
If people, businesses, governments, or armies cannot function without the Internet, then things have gone to far. I do however believe that the cyberwarefare concept is more hyperbole than a real threat. If I couldn't read Slashdot because of some Chinese government DoS attack, it would be sad for me, but it would not be the end of the world. And remember: the Internet as it is was designed for redundancy and routing around communication problems.
Crying Wolf (Score:3, Insightful)
Countermeasure (Score:5, Funny)
Red Flag Linux (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One word ... (Score:5, Insightful)
If "given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow", given enough eyeballs (and china has the most), money, military grade technology and bad intentions, every bugs is a potential weapon.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyway, if t
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing linux at all, but if my history serves me well here, linux gained a following among, shall we say, highly technical miscreants for a reason. It's powerful and able to be reconfigured to perform most any given task optimally.
Re:One word ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Probably not viruses, but worms, and remote-root exploits. If your local equivalent of NSA or GCHQ has found a really nasty bug in, let us say, Apache, which allows root control of the server, they'll quietly code up a worm to exploit it, and keep it in storage against the day they decide they need to knock down a whole bunch of systems.
However, the potential economic gain from owning Apache / MySQL systems is far greater than from owning IIS / SQL Server systems. The reason Windows-based servers are more commonly attacked isn't because they're more numerous, it's because they're more vulnerable. That, and a vulnerability affecting one generally affects all. That's not always the case with the more varied Linux systems, where exploits often depend on a very specific combination of software. So, if you're truly paranoid about informational attack, make sure your crucial systems are as secure as possible, and also varied in configuration, so that no single attack can take out all of them.
Parent
Re:Yes? (Score:5, Interesting)
1/Europe was a warzone for a thousand years. The moment the EU(actually its predecessors) was founded, war ceased. The economic bonds between these member states prevent any war. No-one in his right mind would think of a war between 2 of the member states, and yet Europe is the least militarized zone in the world.
2/the way people keep thinking of "enemies" is an outdated concept. At least in some parts of the world. Can you point them on the map? And Can you make a link to countries not involved in any war in 50 years ?
Parent