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MS to Launch Paid Security Subscription Service

Posted by samzenpus on Wed May 31, 2006 10:47 PM
from the protection-money dept.
user24 writes "MSN reports that Microsoft 'is launching a subscription service aimed at providing better protection for the Windows operating system, which has been vulnerable to Internet attacks. Windows Live OneCare will protect up to three computers for about 50 dollars a year.' From the OneCare website: 'Windows Live OneCare works continuously, automatically, and quietly in the background on your PC, ever vigilant against threats but never in the way, allowing you to have fun and be more productive:'"
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  • by Drinking Bleach (975757) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @10:49PM (#15441754)
    Try fixing your operating system first.
    • Try fixing your operating system first.

      Unfortunately, users can't be patched.

      • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:38PM (#15442009)
        Unfortunately, users can't be patched.

        There are Nicotine patches to stop smoking,
        Birth Control patches for unwanted pregnancies,
        so why not Microsoft patches to quit Windows?

      • Unfortunately, users can't be patched.

        Sure they can - I slap a Mac on 'em. Then they can't click on anything stupid because there is nothing to click on yet that causes harm.

        Yes there could be - but it's hard to ignore the plain fact that there isn't.

        Like all patches, it may not last forever but it does fix the immediate problem.
        • nothing to click on yet that causes harm

          Make it sufficiently profitable and that will change in a heartbeat. There have been exploitable problems in OS X, its not like it's impossible to do. Moving to OS X and staying an idiot user fixes nothing, it delays the inevitable for a bit.
      • Unfortunately, users can't be patched.

        Actually Windows Live OneCare comes withe a trained MS Goon that whacks you on the top of the head whenever you do something stupid. That's the "live" part.

        I didn't quite get the "allowing you to have fun" bit though.
      • by this great guy (922511) on Thursday June 01 2006, @02:42AM (#15442778)
        <<
        Unfortunately, users can't be patched.
        >>

        In my country, we patch them regularly.
        - Vladimir

      • by Mistshadow2k4 (748958) on Thursday June 01 2006, @04:18AM (#15443041) Journal

        [sarcasm] Oh, yeah, right it's ALL the user's fault. And *nix allows remote users to make changes to your system without your knowledge or permission whenever you're online too. And let's not forget that ton of Unix viruses that have made the internet nearly impossible to use because all the servers keep failing. And of course, *nix also requires a whole bunch of third-party software to secure it as well. Oh, and all OSes have browsers with Active X![/sarcasm]

        Yes, a lot of users are stupid. But if the vulnerabilities weren't there in the first place there would be far fewer problems. If Windows was as secure as OS X -- and sorry, Apple fans, it's not as secure as some other *nix distros -- a virus would be a rare thing simply because it wouldn't have anything to work with. So, yeah, if they fixed it that would eliminate most viruses right there. Despite the stereotypes many would have you believe, there are a lot of Mac users who are just as clueless as the Windows user you're describing, but their systems haven't been compromised because the OS they're using isn't horribly insecure to begin with.

        How to secure Windows by yours truly (hope this makes sense; I haven't had much coffee yet):
        1. Firewall! Better still firewall + hardware router.
        2. Anti-virus. I recommend Avast! for 2k and XP, AVG for 9x. If you want to pay for anti-virus, I've heard NOD32 is the best, with Kaspersky's coming in a close second.
        3. Win Patrol [winpatrol.com] prevents many changes fromt aking place without your permission; just scroll down the page for the link to download the free version.
        4. If you're using Xp, get xpy [softpedia.com] which can disable a whole lot of Windows problems, such as the remote regsitry severice which allows remote users to change your registry whenever you're online -- yes, MS made it that on purpose and isn't going to fix it -- and Active X, Windows' most infamous security hole. You need to know what you're doing with this program though; if you don't, get someone who does to help you.
        5. Be careful. Research *everything* you'd like to install. Check the program's ratings at download sites and do a search on the program's name with a good search engine.

        Personally, though, I tend to think Winsdows is hopeless. Patches aren't enough, the system needs to be built from the ground up with much higher security. That means a lot of programs wouldn't even work after that. And would MS provide this as a free fix to all of their customers? Ha!

        But speculation is useless. Microsoft is never going to try to really fix Windows; as successful as they've been already, why should they? Especially not when they can make money selling services to protect Windows! Never mind that they should've built a secure OS in the first place like practically everyone else did.

        • How to secure Windows by yours truly (hope this makes sense; I haven't had much coffee yet): 1. Firewall! Better still firewall + hardware router.

          Forget firewalls, at least for home networks. The only thing I rely on to make a Windows PC safe from incoming attacks is NAT. Put the box behind a NAT router and only forward ports when necessary. Bang, zero chance of anything getting in and it's relatively cheap, as well. It also makes firewalls (which sometimes tend to cause more harm than good) obsolete.
        • A router and a NAT/PAT device are not necessarily the same. A simple "hardware router" does nothing for security.
    • But you see if Microsoft fixed everything, they would be sued for unfair buisness practices by putting companies like Symantec out of buisness in the Windows world.
  • Obligatory (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrNonchalant (767683) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @10:49PM (#15441760)
    They've found the second step!

    1. Build buggy OS full of security holes
    2. Charge 50 dollars a year to fix said bugs
    3. Profit!
    • by Duncan3 (10537) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:31PM (#15441984) Homepage
      Hrm...

      1. Build an OS that's so hard to use only geeks can use it
      2. Charge 50 dollars for documentation/support
      3. Profit!

      Oh wait, that's Redhat ;)
    • ah.. Just when my mod points went away. I hope Dapper hurries up and comes out today.
    • "So you want this car? Well it's only $20 000, but we need $10 000 per year to install locks and alarm systems."

      What I want to know is if this perhaps has any guarantee that doesn't include anything along the lines of "it's totally your fault if our security fails. If someone breaks past our security then sorry but you're fucked".

      Perhaps that's too much to ask.
    • On the other, Apple does:

      1. Build hardware which is not always as great as everyone says
      2. Charge 200$ for replacing a stupid button
      3. Profit!
      • by Anonymous Coward
        There are many of us who have known the second step for ages: What do we do? We use Linux.

        Spent the entire day dealing with the CFO's laptop - one of those that happens in a Fortune 100 company on occasion. XP on a Dell decided to stop handling IP - Outlook would seize, IE and Firefox were hosed. Other than a rebuild, the system was screwed. Whole damn thing was tired. Typical fscking Microsoft "This system is more than 2 years old - I'm ready to die" crap. As if SOX regulators thought that way.

        Interestingl
  • by Admiral Justin (628358) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @10:51PM (#15441766) Homepage Journal
    I gotta commend Microsoft, planning to make money of things that should be integrated into the system so that the threats never happen in the first place.

    Prevention is less profitable than response, thus, they'll never try making a secure system now.
      • by Gorshkov (932507) <(gorshkov) (at) (oghma.on.ca)> on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:49PM (#15442055)
        No double standard at all. Symantec et. al. exist only because of Microsoft's design/implimentation errors - they should not exist at all - there should be no market for microsoft to push them OUT of.

        If microsoft started addressing the problem and making the changes that rendered 3rd party virus programmes unnecessary, I would not only applaud them, but I might even change my mind about being willing to even DEVELOP windows applications.

        In 25 years as a programmer, I have never written a windows *anything* for a client, and never will. Because when the sucker crashes (and it will), will the client blame microsoft? No, they'll blame ME - and it will affect MY reputation.

        When I write for Unix/Linux/QNX/VRTX/Anything the hell else, I can be pretty sure that if something goes boom, it IS my fault - and I should take the blame, and if it reflects badly on me, I deserve it.

        I have no problems whatsoever accepting responsibility for my errors. But there is no f..king way in HELL that I am going to send a client a programme and have them call me once a week bitching about how it keeps crashing becase it's MY fault, when it's because the damned thing is running on an unreliable piece of shit.
        • by xazos79 (931382) on Thursday June 01 2006, @01:59AM (#15442622)
          Riiiight, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the OSes you spouted. I'd hate to bring you back to the real world champ... but its more likely that it *is* your app stuffing up rather than windows crashing. I've been writing apps for 6 years for all platforms and not once has my app crashed as a result of windows. If its crashed, its a bug that's escaped testing. Next time, get off your high horse because those of us down here can't hear you.
          • yup (Score:5, Interesting)

            by goldcd (587052) on Thursday June 01 2006, @02:22AM (#15442698) Homepage
            I have a few windows machine.
            One - a 2003 server has never crashed - as I mainly leave that happily running Apache, mailserver etc.
            One - my big beast has bouts of flakiness - everytime it's down to a flakey driver for some obscure or cutting edge piece of hardware. (a problem MS has attempted to address with signed/unsigned drivers).
            Now if a company produces a buggy driver for Windows, you can usually be pretty sure they put even less effort into the linux one (if they bothered at all).
  • Incredible (Score:5, Insightful)

    by abscissa (136568) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @10:51PM (#15441769)
    Only in the software industry, folks, can you buy a product and then buy another product to make the first product work. I suppose if you are making a bomb that could apply too.
    • Re:Incredible (Score:5, Insightful)

      by hackstraw (262471) * on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:20PM (#15441927) Homepage
      Only in the software industry, folks, can you buy a product and then buy another product to make the first product work. I suppose if you are making a bomb that could apply too.

      Batteries not included.

      • Wrong analogy (Score:4, Insightful)

        by Mostly a lurker (634878) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:36PM (#15442001)
        Microsoft releasing operating systems with inadequate security is not comparable to repair of products that deteriorate through wear and tear (the software equivalent for that is such tools as defragmenters or registry cleaners). It is much more analogous to selling a car with a faulty brake system. Then you buy a separate braking system from another company. The problem with that is that this secondary braking system is not built into the fabric of the car. Thus, it leads to handling problems, will sometimes conflict with the original faulty braking system, and will occasionally even fail to stop the car when needed. The solution is to produce a car that has a properly designed braking system in the first place.
            • Re:Wrong analogy (Score:5, Insightful)

              by drsmithy (35869) <drsmithyNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday June 01 2006, @12:53AM (#15442325)
              User error is a very important source of security problems, but your statement goes way too far.

              No, it doesn't.

              I repeat: anti-spyware and anti-virus software aren't there to protect you against "inadequate security". They *may* do this as a side effect, but it is not their purpose.

              I suspect you have not extensively used Internet Explorer on a user with administrator rights (MS Windows default) to browse the Internet.

              No. Nor would I ever consider doing it.

              If you had, you would have collected spyware without agreeing to install anything.

              Undoubtedly. But this would be due to software bugs (and, arguably, bad UI), not "inadequate security" - not to mention the foolishness of browsing the web with a high-privilege account.

              With Windows XP (original release, no SP 1) just connecting to the Internet from a user with administrator rights, without a firewall, is enough to be infected by worms within a short time.

              As is installing many Linux distros and commercial unixes from the same time period. Again, you are largely describing problems caused by software bugs, not "inadequate security". I will agree that the firewall should have been enabled by default from the first release of XP and that services shouldn't be binding to external network interfaces by default - but even without that, all those remote exploits are coming from *coding errors*.

              OS-level security - which Windows NT has in spades - can protect you against some aspects of malicious code. However, it cannot protect you against all, or even the most common, aspects of malicious code. That is what anti-spyware and anti-virus software is for.

              • Again, you are largely describing problems caused by software bugs, not "inadequate security".

                You make a differentiation without merit, except for pure academic theory maybe.

                Most security problems are software bugs. The fact that it is very hard to write bug-free software with current tools, technology and methods is one of the main headaches of the security people. I am one. Buggy software and users are what I am most worried about, in this order. False policies, configurations and errors in concepts and m
            • You miss the point.
              Microsoft is still fixing real "OS security problems" for free via Windows Update.
              Anti-malware (e.g. spyware, viruses, etc) is designed to thwart malware that doesn't necessarily rely on OS security problems (which, I repeat, will continue to be fixed for free via Windows Update).
      • Re:Incredible (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Gorshkov (932507) <(gorshkov) (at) (oghma.on.ca)> on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:43PM (#15442031)
        There is a very major difference between a 10 year old washing machine needing repairs and parts replacements after good, solid service and use over a period of time, and having to have the Maytag Man show up on your doorstep once a week if you want to be able to do more than one load a month without having your clothes get caught in the gears.
  • ....A little late? (Score:3, Informative)

    by Kahless2k (799262) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @10:52PM (#15441777) Homepage
    I used the OneCare beta for quite a while (actually a good product IMHO).. But the subscription service started at the beginning of the month... Slashdot is a little late in reporting it.. On a side note; I did stop using OneCare when I tried to pay for the subscription (reduced rate for beta users) only to see (for the first time) U.S. Only, with international support at some point in the future (a year?). Anyways.. my $0.02
  • Its funny, Microsoft advertises a free 1 year subscription to eTrust antivirus [my-etrust.com] from CA on their own site [microsoft.com]

    You think they'll keep doing that now? (eTrust bets OneCare by miles, imho)
  • How MS can sell you a product that they admit is broken, then sell you a subscription service to fix it? Those guys are marketing wizards.

    If this was any other product in the world people would scream bloody murder.

  • by mincognito (839071) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:09PM (#15441875)

    As you can see from the site http://www.windowsonecare.com/ [windowsonecare.com] they are offering antivirus, antispyware, firewall, performance tune-ups, and data backup and restore. At least 3 of those are dependant on their windows OS deficiencies.

    It's obvious that they wouldn't be launching this service now if it won't also be needed for Vista. This was basically the last reason i needed to switch over to a Mac.


      • by mincognito (839071) on Thursday June 01 2006, @12:00AM (#15442097)
        Your not honestly going to say that you don't think that antivirus / antispyware is a good thing to have on a machine used by the type of person who will click OK to everything they see?
        The point is, if the OS was secure in the first place, antivirus/antispyware wouldn't be needed.
        A firewall is useful on any system (not just Windows)
        But why should i pay extra when other OSs offer full-fledged firewalls built-in?
        anyone storing data on their machine and NOT doing some kind of data backup (at least for the important data) is crazy
        Yes. But that doesn't explain why sane people should pay $50 a year for onecare.
        As for the performance tune-ups, it really just puts the common tools into one place (defrag, clear temp files, etc)
        According to the site 'permance plus' automatically runs defrag, etc. for the user once a month. Not sure how this improves on a simple "scheduled task" either...

        My original point was that most of what is being offered are dependent on OS deficiencies (i.e. of no value to linux/os x users even if written for those platforms) and the features not dependent on those deficiencies (e.g. automated backup) certainly aren't worth $50 a year.
        • by I'm Don Giovanni (598558) on Thursday June 01 2006, @01:20AM (#15442448)
          The point is, if the OS was secure in the first place, antivirus/antispyware wouldn't be needed.

          It's funny that slashdotters like to think of themselves as smarter than everyone else, more "tech-savvy" than everyone else, yet they make such idiotic statements like the above with regularity. And some idiot modded the above statement as "Insightful", further damning slashdot's rep. LOL

          Spyware generally doesn't rely on OS insecurity.
          Viruses generally don't rely on such either.
          Trojan horses almost never rely on OS insecurity.
          For those that do rely on OS insecurity, Microsoft will continue patching OS insecurity for free with Windows Update (just as Apple does for Macs). For malware that doesn't rely on OS insecurity, anti-malware software (such as Microsoft's OneCare offering) exists.
  • When auto companies sell defective cars that will injure or kill or even just break down, they are REQUIRED to do a recall and fix them for FREE. When Microsoft sells a completely defective operating system that allows data theft, invasion of privacy, extortion and wholesale hijacking of the internet, at a cost of billions of dollars, they get to charge more money for the fix. The arrogance and irresponsible behavior toward the customer is breathtaking. Why are lawyers not lining up for the class action suits?
  • by Marko DeBeeste (761376) on Wednesday May 31 2006, @11:12PM (#15441896)
    Dat's some awful pretty data youse got dere. Me an' Lefty would be heartbroken if sumthin wuz to happpen to it, huh Lefty? Maybe youse is need some prtection insurance?
  • Two Quotes (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Dracos (107777) on Thursday June 01 2006, @12:01AM (#15442106)

    "There's a sucker born every minute." Widely and falsely attributed to P.T. Barnum.

    "A fool and his money are soon parted." Thomas Tusser.

    MS is apparently hoping that lightning will strike twice in millions of places.

    They've said repeatedly that Vista will be the most secure Windows ever, so why would Vista need any additional security software, from the creator of the OS or a third party? Obviously, the answer is that Vista isn't secure, and MS already knows it. They've even thought of a way to turn Vista's lackluster security into a secondary revenue stream.

    To which the suckers and fools will gladly contribute.

  • This is excellent (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Infonaut (96956) <infonaut@gmail.com> on Thursday June 01 2006, @12:55AM (#15442342) Homepage Journal

    Microsoft just gave Linux, MacOS X, and the BSDs a nice, juicy marketing point. There's no need for the DOJ on this one. Microsoft is shooting itself in the foot by coming out and saying that their product simply isn't usable out of the box. If I were RedHat or Novell, I'd jump all over this. I can picture the ads now: "So I need to pay another $50 EVERY YEAR just to keep my computer from getting trashed by viruses? Thanks, but no thanks, Microsoft!"

      • My first support experience with Microsoft set the stage for later encounters.

        This was my first NT domain. Upgrading from NT 3.1 to the newly released NT 3.51.

        Microsoft changed the licensing mechnism in 3.51. I don't recall the details now, but the result was that my network of ~100 PCs was having itermittent login problems. It was annoying, but we were able to live with it while I figured it out.

        I called Microsoft, they made some suggestions, we went around a couple of times trying things, and on the third
      • Time to be bitchslapped back to reality. Linux is not ready for the masses just because you can use it.

        It's a lot closer than you imagine. My friend uses Linux (Mepis, specifically) and I don't think she even knows what the command line is. And no, I didn't spend hours configuring it for her, she installed it herself and didn't need to do any configuring because it automatically recognized her hardware and came with mp3, DVD, etc support. My mom used my Linux box and is jealous because all the silly
  • by Vo0k (760020) on Thursday June 01 2006, @01:35AM (#15442509) Journal
    Pay us and we will protect you from ourselves?

    Most (all?) antivirus companies have extremely harsh policy against employees writing viruses or other malicious code the software is to protect from.

    What is there to stop Microsoft from putting a bug here, a hole there, purposedly, and "discover" it half a year later just to prove how essential the subscription service is to security of a company?
    • Not to be nitpicky and flamebait-ey, but Apple's got holes too, hackers just don't care about them. If it's 50/50 between MS and Apple (yeah, yeah, Linux, I know), you can expect that Macs will be targets too. Something tells me that the [generic mean people] aren't out to prove a point about Microsoft and Apple/*nix, they just go after whatever's easiest. As OSX is Unix-based, I'd imagine finding security holes would be considerably easier should one be looking to do so.
    • This may come as a surprise to you, but most viruses exploit flaws in Microsoft software to spread themselves.

      Microsoft's initial product is defective, malicious people take advantage of the defects to create problems for users, Microsoft then charges users to remove the problems that their defective software allowed for in the first place.

      Who you blame for viruses is debatable, but there's no doubt that Microsoft have a conflict of interests problem if they start selling virus scanner software. If they mak
    • Back in college, I would have LOVED to have proposed this in a marketing class. While I never took a marketing class...

      If you had taken the class, the instuctor would have pointed you towards the maintaince and service contracts that have been part of the consumer marketplace for over one hundred years. He would have reminded you that Windows has ninety-five percent of the home market and self-service Linux less than three.

    • Infused with .Mac? Have you ever used .Mac? This is a completely different kettle of fish.

      .Mac is an Internet services package that once upon-a-time included Antivirus, but now it doesn't. However, it does offer remote backup (1GB), one-click homepages from iPhoto/iWeb, one-click Podcasting (GarageBand) as well as acting as a IMAP mail server and sync server so that bookmarks, system preferences, application preferences, calendars, contacts and bookmarks remain sync'd across multiple Macs.

      In short, It is

      • But most malware nowadays doesn't rely on OS flaws, but rather user foolishness (downloading trojans from warez sites or P2P, clicking on malware email attachments, etc).

        The fact that just clicking on an attachment or a link... not even downloading and opening it... can execute malicious code locally is a fundamental design flaw in one of Microsoft's flagship operating system components... the HTML control. Remember, Microsoft went to the wall with the Department of Justice to avoid having this removed from