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An Interview with 180 Solutions

Posted by CowboyNeal on Sun Apr 02, 2006 09:13 PM
from the getting-to-know dept.
Security Businesses
Paperghost writes "Here's a great interview between Jimmy Daniels and an anonymous ex-employee of 180 Solutions, who portrays the company as being somewhere between turmoil and meltdown. There's so many notable quotables it's scary, but here's one that really sets the tone: 'Shutting down these rogue distributors turned out to be a lot more difficult than they expected though. When you lose them, your daily installs go down drastically and the revenue goes to hell. The layoff in September could be laid directly at the feet of this effort.'"
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  • Goes down drastically? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Phantombrain (964010) on Sunday April 02 2006, @09:15PM (#15047757) Journal
    How can they have so many "rouge distributors" and not notice? It seems like someone had to say "Oh, this doesn't look right". I guess it's hard when you're a spyware company.

  • eh? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by rscoggin (845029) on Sunday April 02 2006, @09:24PM (#15047783) Homepage
    How can they even exist without "rogue distributors"? I was under the impression that that was about 90% of their installs... I don't really know anyone that decides to install that on their own >_>
    • Didn't you read the article? (I'm sorry, I momentarily forgot where I was). The company's going bust. Their profits soared when they "ignored" rogue installs (by ignore, I mean happily accepted the profits from), they're now going bust after coming down on rogue installs. It doesn't take a genius to work out what's going on.
      • But for the intellectually non-inclined, I'll explain anyways: the need for Spybot may dissapear.

        $w00t++;

      • Re:eh? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by lintux (125434)
        Well you know when you, or somebody else, installs that addictive new flash game? Well one of the 15 yes buttons that you click is your permission to install that spyware and adware.

        Yeah, saw that. But I'd consider that a rogue installation too, by exploiting the user instead of his/her software.

  • Who? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Eightyford (893696)
    I know I'm not the only one has has never heard of 180 Solutions. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
    180 Solutions is the company that produces adware applications such as Zango and Seekmo. Formerly, they also produced the 180 Search Assistant (also known as 180sa) and ncase.
    • Judging by your UID, 180 has been discussed numerous times.

    • Re:Who? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Glonoinha (587375) on Sunday April 02 2006, @09:36PM (#15047823) Journal
      I know I'm not the only one has has never heard of 180 Solutions. From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
      Those fuckers are evil - even the Wikipedia page on 180 Solutions tried to install spyware on my computer.

    • Re:Who? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Onan (25162) on Sunday April 02 2006, @10:03PM (#15047883)
      By far the worst thing about slashdot editors--worse than the dupes, the typos, the mischaracterizations--is their apparent inability to write headlines and summaries that mean a damn thing to readers who don't already know every bit of obscure trivia about what's being discussed. I'm longstanding geek, I read slashdot more or less daily; I'm smack in the middle of the target audience. And yet, at least once a week I see a "summary" that's completely incomprehensible gibberish to me.

      One has to wonder why, if the editors submit writeups that are meaningless to anyone who doesn't already know exactly what's being said, they bother writing anything at all.
      • Uh, this is certainly not the first time this has come up on Slashdot. Do you expect the authors to explain what Linux is every time one of those stores comes up? If you're one of the 5% of Slashdot readers who didn't know what this story was about, do you think there might be a resource you could use? [justfuckinggoogleit.com]
        • Perhaps the previous summaries provided more information about what was being discussed, clarifying for me that it was a topic in which I have no interest, and I moved on without memorizing the company's name. I've never used Windows, never plan to, never support anyone doing so, so spyware companies are not a topic to which I devote a lot of attention. But this summary said nothing more specific than "IT" and "security", which covers a lot of ground in which I am interested.

          Explaining Linux is hardly a m

      • Your argument is correct and pointless. Whichever way the editors try to summarize the news item, there will be thousands that still have no clue what it's about, and hundreds that whine that the editor is over-simplifying the issue.

        I think the current way works well; for me, I know that whenever there's a story where I go "snuh?", there's always some relevant background info in the early replies.

  • Screen Saves and Wallpapers AHOY! (Score:3, Informative)

    by komodo9 (577710) * on Sunday April 02 2006, @09:27PM (#15047793) Homepage
    180 Solutions has forever ruined the free multimedia industry of the internet. Anytime I see a "free screensaver" or "free desktop wallpaper", they're usually somehow connected with spyware and adware.

    And their popups/popunders.... ugh.
    --
    BMW Forums [unitedbimmer.com]

  • content economy? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by opencity (582224) on Sunday April 02 2006, @09:52PM (#15047855) Homepage
    You're not creating a content economy by making your advertising an anoyance. This 'blink tag' mentality doesn't work when everyone can provide content. How many of you, googling the capital of faroffistan, type 'wiki'? No ads, obnoxious loaders, browser crashing javascript.

    Now that content is a two (multi?) way stream we have to go back to a pre-electronic mindset. Some of the greatest paintings of the 19th century were sold to hang in restaurants. Now that's good advertising.
    • The "content economy" thing is BS. I understand that advertising pays for content, as it always has on TV, and we put up with it because the content is valuable and we don't want to pay the full costs of production+profits to the producers and distributors.

      But I would never intentionally put a device in my home that broadcast ads at me all day and night just so I could watch an hour of TV a day. Imagine if your TV prompted you in small print whether you wanted to "install" such a program on the TV in exch
    • How many of you, googling the capital of faroffistan, type 'wiki'?
      I don't. I type 'w faroffistan' instead and get the same effect. :)

  • Vmware? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by crossmr (957846) on Sunday April 02 2006, @09:58PM (#15047866) Journal
    Uninstalls? Yeah. I've taken it off my neighbors computer a couple times He has three girls and it finally got so bad that I rebuilt his laptop and installed vmware, then decreed that he was the only person in the house allowed to use the computer without starting vmware first and surfing from it. He backed it up and has been happy ever since.

    Who sets up Vmware as a permanent use type of solution like this? Why not just install anti-spyware tools, use mozilla, and even toss on the tea-timer from spybot.

    I guess its been so long since I've been that naive I forget what its like..

    • Re:Vmware? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by grcumb (781340) on Sunday April 02 2006, @10:19PM (#15047917) Homepage Journal

      "Who sets up Vmware as a permanent use type of solution like this?"

      I do. I run a few public access computer centres, and this is the only way to keep them intact. The computers run Ubuntu by default, but if someone absolutely positively needs Windows (e.g. Teaching a class about Word), they run XP in a VM, which reverts to its initial state the moment it's powered off. Thank heavens for snapshots!

      In public access situations, I really do have an 'infinite number of monkeys' at the keyboards, and this is the best way I've found to guarantee that things never break.

        • Re:Vmware? (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Jerf (17166) on Sunday April 02 2006, @11:47PM (#15048172) Journal
          Setting up to run Vmware simply to surf because you're afraid of spyware is absolutely ridiculous.

          You can make a very good case that the exact opposite is true, especially if you're dealing with someone who insists on using Internet Explorer. IE has had a large number of flaws that allow hostile remote websites to do silent installs of arbitrary software. It quite likely still has some. I'm also not prepared to say Firefox doesn't have any, even though I'd expect it to be somewhat better.

          So what, you say? You only browse the safe websites? I respond, oh, you mean you absolutely, positively never make a typo in the location bar? The websites you browser are absolutely guaranteed to not be hacked?

          Heck, I've accidentally clicked on links in my spam when my touchpad acts up. I use Linux so I'm not too worried, but in Windows, that could have been enough!

          It certainly ought to be ridiculous, but if you really examine the facts of the case as they are rather than as they should be, setting up a VM for browsing makes quite a lot of sense in any situation where the user can't be trusted to re-install their OS if necessary. If that includes home use for some family where all the members have better things to do with their time than learn the arcana of Windows, so be it. The only downside is memory consumption and the fact that it makes downloading things for the host system that much harder... something in that scenario I'd be inclined to call a feature anyhow.
          • Good call, and its worth pointing out that this is not a security concept limited to Windows and Microsoft software specifically either. Its the reason why an increasingly large number of *nix server daemons are set to run in a chrooted or jailed environment - Apache, many of the OpenBSD-affiliated projects like OpenSSH, OpenNTP, etc all can run this way.

            The idea of course being that a remote compromise will only gain access to the chroot environment rather than your juicy and tender /etc files, /sbin binar
          • >The websites you browser are absolutely guaranteed to not be hacked?

            Or never to carry advertising content from an infected server? Or never to be DNS-hijacked?

            Staying on reputable web sites does lower your risk but nothing more than that. Noscript is your good friend.
            • Agreed, the education is the priority. Part of the learning experience is making mistakes; both the freedom to make them and to learn from them.

              I would much rather take the time to explain to them how to proplerly use stuff, and maybe get them using another browser like mozilla/firefox, then come up with some asinine solution like forcing them to run Vmware.

              Setting up VMWare doesn't mean the parent gets out of educating their child. It just provides an easier to support&maintain computing environment.
        • Maybe people could expend a lot less effort with this kind of ridiculous setup if they learned how to surf the internet without clicking on every shiny thing that pops up in their face.

          Well, those would be the rubs. It takes time to learn safe surfing, especially when there isn't much in the way of instruction and/or interest on the part of the surfer. And add to that the fact that people are actually trying to selling stuff on the internets. Lets call it marketing. The whole point of "marketing" is to
            • There seems to be some misconception that any idiot should be able to use a computer and people don't realize that there are basic skills you should pick up before using one in an uncontrolled environment

              Sure but out in the real world, that doesn't happen very often. And isn't likely to happen anytime soon.

              Be grateful that you haven't had provide tech support. :)

  • Oh yeah... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by thej1nx (763573)
    Shutting out your primary distribution channel and clientele is ofcourse, a bad business policy.

    Which no sane company will ofcourse do. Especially considering that their entire business model depends on adware/spyware.

    So all I can surmise is, they are trying to get at least some good PR value out of a bad quarter :p

    They do need a more positive public perception of them, considering the recent cases against spyware makers/distributors.

  • Oh....no... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I feel so bad for these guys...especially the guys that are surprised by the pink slips.

    Poor malicious coders.

    Wonder what they put on their resumes...probably would load it with spyware if the paper supported it.

    AC
    • Wonder what they put on their resumes

      "Please don't kill me"?

      Mind you, if I ever got a resume from someone who'd worked for a spamware company, it would go to the very same place as the spam.

      -jcr
      • Mind you, if I ever got a resume from someone who'd worked for a spamware company, it would go to the very same place as the spam.

        Everyone needs to eat. Sometimes we do what we have to in order to survive.

        "Let's see, I can eat, pay bills, and make ends meet, or not work for this company with which I have philisophical differences."

        Just because someone works for one of these companies doesn't mean that they are "evil".

        • Yeah... because there are literally *no* other openings available, right? There is *no* other company in the world you can work for? Get real. The Nuremberg defense is really getting old.

  • Lately I've been seeing TV ads featuring smiling, happy actors standing in front of expensive automobiles and houses claiming that they now earn $5K (and up) per month for doing relatively little work. Somehow this is possible by using a computer and the internet.

    Reading the small print on the screen tells the viewer that, after registering online, the viewer will be directed to some other website that features "business opportunities". It seems like every time I catch this ad there is a different URL and
    • The changing URLs are probably to measure ad response rates.

      It's a pretty slick ad, and has been on the air for a long time. They must be doing something right to have paid for the ad and kept it on the air.

      I just wish it was that easy to make "big money" on the Internet.

      • Sure it's easy. Just make those sites and drive traffic to them. What, you expected that it was the people going to those URL's that made the money? Silly rabbit.

          • huh? that made absolutely no sense. explain again in english.

            Simple, they're usually MLMs or some other crap. The people on the other end of those sites are probably going to charge you a fee for participation -- they make money. You sign up for some silly scheme, you might make money, or you might just waste your time and the money you have now.

            Classic money making scheme:

            Send me $20, and I'll send you instructions on how to make a fortune. They send you $20, and you tell them to get people to send the

  • 180 solutions can burn in hell (Score:4, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday April 02 2006, @10:45PM (#15047994)
    I had a run in with one of their people not too many months ago. I had been put on one of their spam mailing lists and I emailed their address to ask for my domain to be removed. Initially, I got a person who said that they wouldn't do it. When I replied and said that I would file a complaint with their upstream data provider, I found my email address mailbombed with additions to about 5000 mailing lists. Luckily these days most mailing lists ask for a confirmation and those that don't I weeding out pretty quick. The moron also didn't realize that most mailing lists confirm messages also include the IP of the subscriber. I replied again and included the draft letter to the upstream provider and a letter of the local police department's electronic crimes office for an attempted DoS attack, but this time someone else responded and apologized. Never heard from them again. Before the slashbots jump on me for replying to SPAM, I'd like to say that I've already paid the price.
  • I welcome the day when adware/spyware companies start going out of business. These companies should expect that these are not long term ventures, and most people are very irratated by their software no matter how they try to present it. Yes, a small economy surrounds the business of spyware, but it's business based on mass numbers (i.e. casualties) and not by innovation, or any sort of usefullness. Just like the old days of selling blind-link traffic and 404 traffic, except we knew it had its days numbered.

  • 180 Solutions exploits Wikipedia for marketing (Score:5, Informative)

    by Brushen (938011) on Monday April 03 2006, @12:54AM (#15048331)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Zango_Me ssenger&oldid=14840188 [wikipedia.org]

    Look at this Wikipedia revision, creating an article on a 180 Solutions product. Look at the history tab, and you will note this revision was done by the IP address 206.169.156.2. The IP address corresponds with 180 SOLUTIONS HOOKED-2 when looked up in the American Registry for Internet Numbers [arin.net].

    The article was changed to give it a more neutral tone many times, but in all cases the IP address tried to revert to the original version. The article in its current form is located here [wikipedia.org], but with a sign that says that everything in this article but not be accurate, nor true. The IP address range for 180 Solutions is 206.169.156.0 - 206.169.156.255. See this American Registry for Internet Numbers [arin.net] entry for 180 Solution's physical address. The city can be confirmed by Wikipedia itself.

    This was done in June 2005, around the same time the U.S. Congress staffers began editing Wikipedia, coincidentally. Again, using Wikipedia as a source, this company has less than 250 employees. Because this IP address came from the company, what are the odds that the editor created that article about that "instant messaging service" for love of the company alone? It reads like an advertisement.

    They used Wikipedia to market their filth, and spyware company or not, that's something I'll always hold in contempt. (mod up)

  • When your business revolves around shoving ads down consumers' throats with nothing in return, you're destined to fail.
  • I don't think they should be afraid to be unemploeyd. If ever anyone deserved to be the vistim of a drive by shooting, these f*ckers are top of the list.

    They are in the same league with Al-Quaieda when it comes to evil.

    They have destroyed billions of dollars of pruductivity and are probably directly responsible for the attitude that computers have to be thrown away on a regular basis because its easier to throw them away than get rid of the spyware.

  • Another misleading Slashdot heading (Score:5, Insightful)

    by smallpaul (65919) <paul&prescod,net> on Monday April 03 2006, @07:55AM (#15049227)
    How can an interview with an ex-employee be regarded as "An Interview with 180 Solutions?"
    • You're not directly claiming this, but you might want to read up on the broken window fallacy [wikipedia.org]. If you were not always fixing damage done by others, society could use your skills in a more productive manner.
      • Of course, the fallacy behind the fallacy is that it assumes he's capable of being used in a more productive manner...
        • Well, I have a hard time with the idea that the only productive thing he can do is remove spyware. :)

          But, I suppose if I really break down the economics, at least one of the following is true: 1. He could obtain higher pay elsewhere doing something else, and in an economic sense probably should, or 2. He can not obtain higher pay somewhere else, therefore this is the most valuable thing he can be doing, therefore if the spyware problem went away while he wouldn't necessarily be jobless, he would take a pay

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