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Longhorn to Require Monitor-Based DRM
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Jul 15, 2005 10:24 AM
from the it's-everywhere-it's-everywhere dept.
from the it's-everywhere-it's-everywhere dept.
Mr_Silver writes "Engadget has an interesting article regarding a new feature in Longhorn entitled PVP-OPM (Protected Video Path - Output Protection Management) which detects the capabilities of the display devices you are using and manages how (and if at all) content is sent to it. In short, this means that if Longhorn detects that your monitor is not "secure" enough, then your premium video content won't play on it until you buy one that is. Who gets to decide? The content providers of course." From the article: "So what will happen when you try to play premium content on your incompatible monitor? If you're "lucky", the content will go through a resolution constrictor. The purpose of this constrictor is to down-sample high-resolution content to below a certain number of pixels. The newly down-sampled content is then blown back up to match the resolution of your monitor. This is much like when you shrink a JPEG and then zoom into it. Much of the clarity is lost. The result is a picture far fuzzier than it need be."
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Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone who doesn't care, which is going to be a lot of people. They'll buy a new PC, which will merely happen to come with this kind of restrictive DRM. But it'll come with an appropriate monitor too, so they'll never notice.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
Or anyone who doesn't know - ie, pretty much all non-geeks. You think MS is going to plainly and clearly announce this 'feature' on the box (yeah, yeah, who gets Windows in a box)?
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance...right now the average Joe would be more apt to buy a Windows base machine because this is the one that "runs the stuff he wants" like games and other stuff. I've talked to many people to see if they would switch to OSX or Linux and the first things out of their mouths are "but does will it run _____". Once they understand that DRM will constrict everything they do like "hey man, that machine you got if you get a movie and you don't have the right monitor, the movie will look like shit...you have to buy a pre-approved monitor yo which costs more yo" (I threw in the "yo's"...average Joe's use that today).
I don't see this flying well with consumers at all. Because it may come with the appropriate monitor for that manufacturer, it's the CONTENT people that get to decide what is an appropriate monitor. "Oh, we have a partnership with Sony and you have an NEC monitor...sorry, downsampling for you!"
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But will it run ____? (Score:5, Insightful)
Generally, when one asks "Will it run ____?" the blank is filled in with some commercial piece of software, usually a game or a productivity app. And the answer will always be yes: Photoshop, MS Office, Half Life 83, etc. will all run beautifully on this. Probably even the old versions will, since they're not video players. The same will apply to all of the most common media players; in fact, Windows Media Player will run right there.
The most obvious question from the slightly more insightful user is, "Will it play my existing DVDs?", and that's the biggest question mark. If the answer turns out to be "No", if somebody upgrades their laptop and discovers the next time that they board an airplane that they have to read the in-flight magazine rather than watch Tomb Raider 9 3/4, then you're going to see some serious, serious backlash.
I'm going to assume that MS knows that, and so existing DVD formats will probably play exactly as they do now (which does have various protections anyway, though they're easily bypassed.)
Instead, I expect that this will apply primarily to new content (or rather, newly-coded content). For that, question would be "But will it run NFF (New Fangled Format)?" and the answer is "Yes". The flip side, "Will NFF run on my existing box" will be "No", but I think that user backlash on that is smaller than you might expect. They could take it as an opportunity to switch to Linux/OS X/PDP 11, but as long as they're buying a new computer, they could buy one with Longhorn, which will run NFF along with all of their old programs.
The user is kept on the upgrade treadmill because at each step the logical choice will be "forward" rather than "right" or "left". That's partly because they expect that a side-step will just put them on a different treadmill, which is a whole different debate.
So I don't expect this to cause a mass defection from Windows, at least not by itself. Other factors (cheaper Macs, improved Linux, the stunning revival of the Timex Sinclair) will make it hard to tease out whether I'm right or wrong, so maybe all this is moot, but, well, it's Slashdot and I get to shoot my mouth off anyway.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
All the good stuff they pull out of longhorn, then they keep crap like this? Screw them. The day it stops making my life easier to have a Windows machine lying around is the last day I'll ever use it.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000230050640/ [engadget.com]
Not software, perhaps, but it will get the job done.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
the capability of displaying the content?
Are you fucking kidding?
I need to landfill my current monitor and spend an additional $200 - $300 (or signifcantly more if it's a good one) just to watch certain content?
100% bullshit.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Funny)
You say that like its a bd thing.
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Illegal to watch movies on Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, we all know that making bits not copyable is like making water not wet. But I think you underestimate the MPAA's lobbying capabilities. I fully expect it to be illegal to posses or discuss wet water any day now.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
This is Yet Another Form of DRM, which in general is a Bad Thing, IMHO. I always hated CD keys for any software that could be used offline (like and OS, or most non-MMO games). When Windows XP went to not only requiring a key, but also requiring an online activation, as well as not letting me change my hardware too much without checking in, that sealed the deal. I only use Linux on all my machines now.
But as to your point: if you'd told people in 1991 that their OS wouldn't let them install without a secret key, and without going online to verify their system, they would've said market forces would prevent such a crappy product from being a success. If you'd told them that it would analyze your hardware, and only let you upgrade a certain number of times or in a certain way before it forced you to check back in with the company who wrote it, they would've called you insane. But here we are, and people are buying it like there is no tomorrow.
So, as much as I'd like to think the consumers will rise up and say "No more! I want to decide when I upgrade my hardware, I want to decide if I have to contact Microsoft, and I want to decide where, when and how I enjoy media I pay for!", there is no indication that it will ever happen.
Of course, I feel the same about iTunes and Apple. Every around here lauds Apple's success at making DRM "work", but I stand by, thinking "It only works if you use an iPod, and if you run Windows or OS X, and only if you want Apple to dictate which devices can play your music." Sure, there is Crossover Office that pseudo-supports iTunes under Linux, and there is JHymn, so you can crack all the DRM on every file you download, but c'mon - why support a product that goes out of its way NOT to support you?
And really, it is kind of sad, because it doesn't do anything to stop pirates (all the songs on iTunes are available on peer to peer networks already, so what are we trying to prevent?), and just hinders me from having a Linux client, playing the songs on my JetAudio X5 or my Neuros, or streaming them to my MythTV box in the living room so we can listen to the music during dinner.
I'm not a huge Star Wars 1-3 fan, but I saw all of them in the theaters. The best line in all 3 was Padme's line in the Senate Hall:
"So this is how liberty dies, with thunderous applause..."
And so it is.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
They may see "DRM security features"
I can see the sales people in computer stores tell their customers that these security features make surfing the web and everything safe.
I know it will happen.
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What this means is (Score:5, Insightful)
What this means is, WE HAVE TO TELL THEM.
People aren't going to refrain from buying Longhorn. People in a year or so literally won't have a choice; if you want a new computer you'll be buying Longhorn. However, we can make an impact on the secure monitors. It wouldn't be that hard to convince people (friends, family, neighbors, etc) that the new secure monitors and video cards are to blame (which they are, because if the secure monitors aren't picked up then the feature won't be used by content providers). Explain the feature enough that they'd understand it-- perhaps explain that the movie companies and microsoft want to stop you from doing certain things with your computer, and they can only do it if people buy these monitors-- them that and try to get them to pick some other brand.
Longhorn is unstoppable. Microsoft can and will do literally anything it wants. However a consumer backlash against the feature itself is possible as long as the hardware is targetted. Unfortunately I fear the American consumer is so weak right now no one will bother to try.
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Re:What this means is (Score:5, Insightful)
Problem is, they won't listen. Society tends to be fairly apathetic about this sort of thing.
While not an entirely similar instance, I have been pushing all my friends and family to boycott the RIAA and MPAA based on their recent tactics. Some of them are even file sharers.. Yet they don't care. They will happily shell out 18 bucks for the latest pop CD, even though I have explained to them time and time again that the artist makes practically nothing from CD sales..
I hate being surrounded by apathy. Some solutions are incredibly simple, yet people aren't willing to make just a little extra effort to do the RightThing(tm).
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Re:What this means is (Score:5, Insightful)
Both the problem and its draconian solutions depend on apathy.
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Re:What this means is (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:What this means is (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I think TV is the one thing that average Americans do care about. You can take away their civil liberties, you can expand copyrights till the cows come home, but if you fuck with their TV they will rise up (off the couch) and destroy you.
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Not likely (Score:5, Insightful)
As far as Linux, expect that it won't work at all unless someone can manage to find a crack to unprotect content.
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Re:Not likely (Score:5, Informative)
Apple did not create AAC. (Dolby Labs did) AAC does not have DRM. (Apple's DRM only applies to content from their store, not all AAC files.) Apple could easily apply its DRM to pretty much any codec.
Saying that AAC is related to content protection at all is just pure unmitigated bullshit. I'm starting to think you don't know what you're talking about.
Apple has not licensed its DRM to anyone, and there is no DRM in the system itself except for its own products (specifically the iTunes Music Store.) I think the chances of the Monitors pref pane ever having a "security" tab are nil. Go sell your FUD elsewhere.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance, I have a G4 tower. It's a fantastic piece of design work, from a technical standpoint. If you want to service the hardware, you just power the machine off, pull the ring-pull, and the side drops open. All the cards are laid out there for you to tinker with. You don't even have to unplug anything. When you're done, lift the side back up and it clicks into place. Push the power button and you're ready to go.
I build PCs, and even though I'm picky about components I've not managed to find anything remotely as good in the PC world. (In fact, if anyone knows of a PC case that's as good, that'll take 3 hard drives, please let me know.) As for consumer PCs--forget it. I had to service a friend's HP Compaq machine, and it was a piece of crap. Cheap plastic, awkward to get to the RAM and drives.
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
True, if by "morons" you mean "people who want to get work done with their computer, rather than spend hours fighting with it to get it configured properly".
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Re:Outstanding (Score:5, Insightful)
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in related news (Score:5, Funny)
Re:in related news (Score:5, Interesting)
---
I'm actually just a script.
Generated by SlashdotRndSig [snop.com] via GreaseMonkey [mozdev.org]
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YESSSS (Score:5, Funny)
Daniel
Ours, all ours! (Score:5, Funny)
My Documents -> Documents
My Monitor -> Our Monitor!
Seriously, who didn't see this coming?
Re:Ours, all ours! (Score:5, Funny)
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extreme case of DRM (Score:5, Interesting)
Another reason why Tiger and Leopard makes Longhorn look long-in-the-tooth ^^
Finally... (Score:5, Funny)
Will it stop a semi-serious pirate? (Score:5, Interesting)
It will stop some casual piracy, you know, the kind companies and congressmen say they don't care about. Mostly it will get Microsoft a piece of the monitor market without the need to develop useful features or compete on price.
Re:Will it stop a semi-serious pirate? (Score:5, Insightful)
The keyword is encrypted. It's not just a matter of 'figuring out the protocols', it's also necessary to defeat encryption that is specifically designed to stop folks who are trying to do what you describe.
Is it impossible? No. But it's a lot more complicated then just downloading the protocol, taking a scope to the wires, and hacking together an interface.
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Copy it once, copy it a million times (Score:5, Insightful)
No, copying movies the first time becomes a restricted occupation. Once a single unencrypted copy exists, then making a million more is no more difficult than it is today.
Whip out your favorite P2P client, and search for some copyrighted video. Do you see a hundred different rips made by each of the hundred different people sharing a copy? No, you see one or two of the best rips, each with hundreds of identical copies shared, in part because the swarming download protocols and hashing algorithms fundamentally encourage that behavior.
So what difference will in-monitor DRM make? Instead of having a few zealous groups using software to rip tons of movies that are then shared by millions of people, we'll have a few zealous groups using hardware to rip tons of movies that are then shared by hundreds of millions of people.
Wait - why will there be more people sharing these rips? Because most people will own some of the billions of non-DRM-capable monitors in existance, and the moron DRM-using publishers will have thus made it impossible for them to play a full-quality copy of these videos unless they have an illegal copy. Publishers couldn't do anything more stupid if they put a "Download free movies on P2P! It's the best!" advertisement at the start of every show!
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This is a reason to buy Longhorn!? (Score:5, Insightful)
WinFS pretty much seems indefinately stalled.
Avalon seems to be delayed until after release.
The new shell will not be available until the Server release.
But the crippling DRM feature that requires me to have an MPAA approved monitor to get "premium" video quality is right on schedule.
Re:This is a reason to buy Longhorn!? (Score:5, Insightful)
Windows 2000 is plenty good for anyone these days. It's a shame, that 5 years later there's no compelling reason to upgrade.
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RTA: It's not just Microsoft (Score:5, Informative)
From the article:
You don't think Apple is going to do this too? What will happen with Linux though? With Linux making inroads into set top boxes there will be some solution for Linux, though I don't think it will make its way to the desktop (legally).
Well.. (Score:5, Interesting)
In my case, if my monitor is not "secure" enough, finding a replacement might not be so easy. My monitor is an older CRT that presents a very high quality picture. I use this because I dislike the ghosting and viewing angle issues that, while much improved from how they used to be, are still present in LCD monitors.
The problem is that it is hard to find a decently priced, truly good CRT anymore because most of the industry is switching over to flat panel production. They literally don't make them like they used to anymore.
I'm guessing that this technology is just geared towards people using video outs to TVs and Tivo like devices, but I really don't like the idea of being potentially forced to buy a new monitor just for an operating system. That is pretty rediculous.
Whats the point? (Score:5, Insightful)
For instance, they made ATRAC as a secure format for digital music, we all still use mp3. They made
So who wants to bet that this DRM will die still born along with the rest of the attempts to restrict media?
Awesome ! (Score:5, Interesting)
for making it happen!
If only we could charge them for the environmental damage they're going to cause. =/
Here's why this is a GOOD thing: (Score:5, Insightful)
Second of all, this means that in order to access their movie content and so on, you'll have to have one of the "special" monitors, but the system will only work through Windows -- it's primarily a software solution which looks for the monitor feature, and fucks up the imagery if it doesn't find it. So, again, Linux remains unaffected.
Third, if we Linux guys decided to buy something like a future game console or set-top box (we wouldn't run a Windows computer per se, of course, because we're already wonderfully served by our Linux boxen) it would probably have this built-in, and we'd be able to do what we wanted with it.
I'd say it's not a bad idea overall.
A fix from our friends in Germany (Score:5, Informative)
Magic de-HDCPed DVI. Completely illegal in the USA thanks to the DMCA, but the rest of the world can enjoy our content at full resolution.
Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:*sigh* (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Choices (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:The Solution without a Problem... (Score:5, Insightful)
Let me be the first to disagree with this comment. "Content", whether it be audio, video, art or whatever is a consumer product just like any other. Just because it is digital, does not allow the producer to decide how their product is used. DRM is setting a VERY dangerous precedent. Digital media is sort of unchartered waters for everyone at the moment. So its easy to fall in the trap, and accept these new restrictions as "normal". But what happens when similar principles start spreading to other industries ?
Imagine this...
Want to buy the new Harry Potter book ? Sure ! By buying the book however, you are implicitely agreeing to this EULA, which states that you cannot discuss the contents of this book (plot, characters, ending) with anyone else. After all, the author of the book would not want you to ruin the experience for everyone else. Its only fair !
Want to buy this new GM car ? Sure. But GM is now forcing you to only buy GM branded gaz, oil, tires, etc. Oh and forget about after-market parts. It is now illegal to replace any parts of your car with non-GM sanctionned parts. After all GM made the car, they should have a right to decide how the car is used afterwards, no ?
The new "digital media" era has no right to change the basic producer/consumer relationship which have been established in the last hundreds of years.
Oh and you can try using your "if you dont' like it dont' buy it line". But when huge conglomerates (think sony, bmg, microsoft, etc) control both the content and HOW the content is delivered (or are in a position to influence companies), consumers don't really have a choice and lose out in the end. Do you really think that linux will ever become widespread if you can't play music and watch movies on it without breaking the law ?!
I think we should all stop being so naive...
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Re:The Solution without a Problem... (Score:5, Interesting)
When you open the box, there's a neat little notice in there; they're kind enough to post it on the web - http://www.stots.com/agree.htm [stots.com]. It's even a shrink-wrap agreement:
"Removing the seal from the product indicates your agreement to be bound by the terms of the agreement."
Here's where they tell you that you didn't really "buy" the tool, you just bought the right to use it for a while:
"This is a license, not a sales agreement, between you, the end user, and Stots Corporation ("Stots"). Stots grants to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable (except as provided below) license to use the Make-It-RightTM Template Master TM ("Product") attached to the agreement seal and also to the manufacturing process ("Process") described in the accompanying documentation in accord with the terms set forth in this License Agreement."
Some of the assinine conditions:
Want to use it in your basement AND in your garage? Tough. OR - want to lend it to a friend? Tough.
"You may: a. use the Product (or any of the working templates produced using the Product or Process) in only one shop by the original purchaser only."
Want to lend, not the original tool, but a jig made using the tool with the wood you bought, to a friend? Tough.
"You may not: a. allow individuals that did not purchase the original Product use the Product or any templates produced using the Product or Process described"
Don't like stickers on your tools? Think you might use the box for another purpose and scribble over the original grahics on the box? Tough.
"You may not... d. remove any proprietary notices, labels, or marks on the Product, documentation, and containers"
Say you try using it for a week and decide it's not the tool for you. Think you could just put it up for sale on eBay? Get real. Remember...
"Stots grants to you a non-exclusive, non-transferable (except as provided below) license" (for what it's worth, the provision below says that you can transfer your rights with Stot's written permission and subject to the transferee's acceptance of the same terms and conditions you agreed to [by opening the box]).
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Re:WTF? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, no. Only if you want to use the Secure Computing platform built in to Longhorn. This "feature" is part of Microsoft's Next-Generation Secure Computing Base. Essentially they are putting into place a framework that will provide a secure channel from keyboard to OS to monitor that runs in a protected bubble from the non-secure OS/apps/hardware. Longhorn will use a protected kernel "shell" in which DRM-enabled applications can run without interference (or being touched by) applications or non-DRM-enabled hardware running in the non-secure OS portion.
The videocard tech they are talking about here is ostensibly to prevent things like screen-scraping or intercepting video output. The goal is to provide a secure portion of OS that is inviolate from bootup and has secured pathways for data to travel. Think of it as Uber-root or a chroot'd OS partition that include hardware.
Using this secure channel is optional. You are not forced to use it. You can run all the aps you want, you can run it on your old hardware. However, the NGSCB is there should you need... and provided you have the hardware that supports it.
Now, certainly this feature has the *IIA's drooling. The theory is sound but the actual use and implementation can be (and probably will be) abused.
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