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Security IT

Non-Technical Users Talk Malware 410

Posted by Zonk from the from-the-horse's-mouth dept.
swirsky writes "The Chicago Sun Times is running an article detailing the experiences of non-technical users after they were infected by spyware, malware, and viruses. We cluck our collective tongue and think that we'd never be so stupid, but this is a major problem that plagues personal computing." From the article: "The study found that spyware has disrupted the computer lives of 43 percent of surfers. That means an estimated 59 million people have spyware or adware on their computers, the study found. Adware is defined as tracking programs that come bundled with other software and that users knowingly download, although they don't necessarily want the adware."
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Non-Technical Users Talk Malware More

Non-Technical Users Talk Malware

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  • Malware == Moolah (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TripMaster Monkey ( 862126 ) * on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:48AM (#13004084)

    I love malware. Malware removal acounts for probably 65-70% of the bottom line in my business. I'll tell you something else...the $129 average price tag quoted in the article is right on the money.
    Personally, I hope nothing is done about the problem. I only wish I could protect my less-technically-inclined family members and friends more effectively, as I don't charge them for removal. :P
    • Although I don't charge for malware removal (on my family's machines), I know a kid not much older than myself (I'm 15, I thin he's 17) that runs a business centered around this sort of thing....He is apparently doing very well... p.s. I must say I have to agree. I love malware as well, but for a different reason...every infection brings my family members that much closer to letting me switch them over to Linux...

      • Re:Malware == Moolah (Score:5, Insightful)

        by MarkByers ( 770551 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:57AM (#13004200) Homepage Journal
        every infection brings my family members that much closer to letting me switch them over to Linux...

        But don't try to force them to make the switch, it will just lead to frustration when thing don't work out as expected because they can't play this-or-that game.

        Just leave them with their malware problems and let them figure it out for themselves. Drop the odd hint about never having received a virus if you feel like it. Perhaps they'll get a Mac or something. It's a step in the right direction at least.

    • Re:Malware == Moolah (Score:5, Funny)

      by lucabrasi999 ( 585141 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:53AM (#13004156) Journal
      I'll tell you something else...the $129 average price tag quoted in the article is right on the money.

      Bah, I could find an overseas resource to do the same thing for $12.

    • I wonder how big an industry this in in dollars.

      Millions, billions?
    • I only wish I could protect my less-technically-inclined family members and friends more effectively, as I don't charge them for removal. :P

      Send them my way. I'll charge them. :-)

    • Re:Malware == Moolah (Score:5, Interesting)

      by v1 ( 525388 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:10PM (#13004359) Homepage Journal
      We must be giving our customers quite a deal - most of our service is covered in 1 hour's time, $80.25 w/tax. I've watched our PC tech clean up computers on several occasions, and it astounds me how much you really need to know to pull that crap out, even with the automated programs. After he runs two or three apps, he opens up folders and goes recursively through them all, and selects what appear to be a random assortment of folders and files and deletes them. "All of this is spyware." These things are named in such a way as to look like they belong, and it's amazing that anyone can remember all the "bad" names from the good. That being said though, the PCs usually spend about 2 hours on the bench, mostly spent scanning while he works on another machine that needs more focus.

      I'm the mac tech so I don't see the spyware first-hand but I know it keeps the PC tech pleanty busy. Most entertaining aspect of spyware: when one of the other employees uses the PC tech's PC to web browse, and he comes in to find popups on his own machine. hehe..

      Then there are the oh... 1 in 15 customers that can bring in their machine every two weeks to have us remove the spyware, again. Some customers just can't get "don't click the popup's close button" through their head. There ought to be a simple law that states that "any software installer must clearly label the buttons and other control areas in their installer, such that there can be no confusion or deception as to the function of each control, whereas a user could be tricked into allowing the installation without his consent."
      • After he runs two or three apps, he opens up folders and goes recursively through them all, and selects what appear to be a random assortment of folders and files and deletes them. "All of this is spyware." These things are named in such a way as to look like they belong, and it's amazing that anyone can remember all the "bad" names from the good. - not that computer starts after this or anything.... those 'random' directories, you really don't need them.

      • Re:Malware == Moolah (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Jesus_666 ( 702802 )
        There ought to be a simple law that states that "any software installer must clearly label the buttons and other control areas in their installer, such that there can be no confusion or deception as to the function of each control, whereas a user could be tricked into allowing the installation without his consent."

        We have something like that in Germany... If sonmeone wants to install and run a dialer on your system they have to jump through several hoops - the dialer may not be installed without your con

    • Re:Malware == Moolah (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:24PM (#13004536) Homepage Journal
      Wouldn't you rather be expanding the productivity of your customers, rather than just keeping them at "square 1"? If all the production lost to malware were spent on promoting better communications, you'd have at least as many customers. And more produced in exchange for your work (rather than just saved from destruction), which means more wealth to share.

      "War is good for the economy" is a fallacy that is true only for weapon makers. Everyone else pays the price. Fear is a motivator, but it produces less than it destroys. I guess some firefighters "love fire", but most would rather be barbecueing.
    • I'll tell you something else...the $129 average price tag quoted in the article is right on the money.

      Wow, I never quite realized what people are willing to pay for this. Personally, I usually do it for friends and family for the price of a good meal. At work, I support student owned laptops and do this as part of my job. I really need to reconsider going independent.
      That said, yes malware is a huge problem, and one of the reasons I am employed. And for all of the preventative measures we take and t
    • Think that's bad? The place up the street from me charges TWO HUNDRED to reformat your hard drive and reinstall Windows. I could make some serious cash doing that, but I'd have to break all the mirrors in my house so I wouldn't have to look myself in the eye. A thing may be worth whatever someone will pay for it, but that's a steaming pile of bullshit any way you slice it. Of course, they could charge less than half that if they didn't have all that money stolen from them by thugs with badges.

    • Re:Malware == Moolah (Score:3, Informative)

      by dlZ ( 798734 )
      I can't agree more. At least 75% of my business comes from spyware removal, and we're starting to get a lot of new customers who were sick of other shops just wiping their systems, not evening performing backups properly. The fact that we actually fix the machines, and in a worst case scenerio, create a real backup and then reinstall, brings us a ton of customers.

      I luckily don't have to deal with the family removal issues. The one family member that is constantly infecting her machine lives no where nea

  • It's not just the non-technical users (Score:5, Informative)

    by DanielMarkham ( 765899 ) * on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:49AM (#13004101) Homepage
    I downloaded my first program with BitTorrent a few weeks ago -- a TV show that my VCR failed to record. While doing that, I accidentally clicked on a certain part of the web page. Bingo slammo, my system was infected with spyware, this nasty Aurora and nail.exe [netrn.net]
    Being a technical guy, familar with the registry, COM, and how windows works, I went about trying to kill this pesky snake. A few hours later, after saying some words I won't repeat here, I decided to wipe the machine and start over (it was a lighly loaded box, so no major loss)
    I could have gotten SoftIce [windowsitpro.com] and gone into kernal mode to trap this bastard, but it was way beyond my effort vs. reward tolerence level. Spyware has gotten so complicated and sneaky nowadays: to me it is worse of a threat than virsuses ever were.
    Now I run double anti-spyware programs in addition to my A/V and firewall. I think that we technical people are also misunderestimating the danger posed by this junk to our own machines.


    Run With the Bulls, Swim With the Sharks [whattofix.com]

    • Re:It's not just the non-technical users (Score:4, Funny)

      by guitaristx ( 791223 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:57AM (#13004195) Journal
      I think that we technical people are also misunderestimating the danger posed by this junk to our own machines.

      I think we technical people are "misunderestimating" our own grasp of the English language.

    • It's your own fault (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:00PM (#13004230)

      I can understand why non-technical users surf with Internet Explorer.

      I can understand why technical users use Internet Explorer for Windows Update and a small selection of trusted websites (e.g. online banking) for compatibility.

      But I have no sympathy whatsoever for technical users who should know better that continue to use Internet Explorer to visit websites that are in no way trustworthy.

      • I agree with you that you should try and only use IE for Windows Updates but online banking I would avoid. Online banking needs to be extremly secure and I do not trust IE to handle everything properly. If your bank does not have compatibility with Mozilla Firefox then I personally would try and switch to another bank since that security hole is too big to ignore.
    • It can hapen to anyone, but being protected is important... One time i downloaded something from a random torrent site. I knew it was probably virus/spyware packed, but I wan ted to use this as a way to test spywares remover. When I opened it I went from 0 to over 400 spayware (and that's only what AdAware saw). And as many have told before, 1 anti-spaware is not enough, I had to use 4 to get rid of everything XSoft spyware Remover, AdAware, Spybot, Microsoft anti-spyware beta. All of them saw spyware the
    • I accidentally clicked on a certain part of the web page. Bingo slammo, my system was infected with spyware

      How does clicking on a web page bring infection? Surely the browser shouldn't execute anything directly like a spyware installer?

    • Re:It's not just the non-technical users (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MobyDisk ( 75490 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:05PM (#13004295) Homepage
      I don't get this stuff. I hear this story all the time and I don't believe it. I can't download and execute an EXE file in less than 3 clicks, and that's if I've already done it previously and set it as the default and I use an old version of Internet Explorer.

      If you were using Mozilla, you would have had 5 clicks and a double click: Click on the page, then click "Save to Disk" then point to a location, then minimized your browser, then double-clicked the EXE. That's a big accident!

      Firefox lets you set a default download location, so that's down to 4 clicks.

      Maybe you were using Internet Explorer 6 and had the default operation for EXE files to be to open them. You are down to 3 clicks. You could have clicked the web page, clicked OKAY to the prompt to open the EXE. Then maybe you accidentally clicked OK to the prompt about installing an application from the web that shows in a big warning box telling you about signed and unsigned applications.

      Or maybe you were using an old version of Internet Explorer (IE 4? 5?) which doesn't prompt for anything if you have that set as the default. That seems highly unlikely for someone smart enough to know COM and the registry.

      Okay, sorry if I am sounding like a jerk. I really just want to know how this can happen!

    • I have to ask ... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Kozz ( 7764 )
      Not trying to completely berate you here, but I'm genuinely curious as to the level of protection you were using on your PC. Were you surfing with IE at the time? Did you have all the latest windows patches? Also, were you using Spybot S&D's "immunize" function?

      I use FF exclusively, unless there's a good reason to view a page in IE. And I always have the latest S&D immunizations for IE. But I'm curious if I'd be just as vulnerable despite these protections.
    • I agree whole-heartedly. The sad thing is that I find it easier to get comprehensive and up to date virus definitions, and yet some of the best malware removal tools around with the most recent updates still can't seem to get rid of some of this ad-crap permanently.

      Upon getting a new computer, I actually install a firewall and Firefox before any of the mobo and video drivers just in case I have to go online to get the newest drivers. And this is to protect myself from things far worse than sassers and expl
    • Sorry about your "problem" but you were most probably lamely using IE with quite low sec. settings and no good av software. E.g. [I'm not affiliated] avast even proposes to break connection to websites trying to do anything malicious and with Firefox you really can't have a without-click-automatic .exe execution, unless you really really desire it. Simple precautions, especially since you say you know what you're doing [generally, in this case obviously not].



    • You're not going to want to hear this, but anyway ...

      You could have *_avoided_* all of that if you just ran your box as a user, and elevated to admin when needed.

      Mor info on the non-admin experience [msdn.com]

    • While doing that, I accidentally clicked on a certain part of the web page. Bingo slammo, my system was infected with spyware

      Your web browser is defective. It's inconceivable that clicking a link on a web page could be a potentially dangerous thing to do.

      So the obvious question I have is: why the hell aren't you shouting out the name of your web browser to warn the world? (Yeah, we can all probably guess what browser that is, but still, I don't see why it has to remain unspoken.)

      And while it's no

  • Claria (Score:4, Insightful)

    by MarkByers ( 770551 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:50AM (#13004109) Homepage Journal
    An thanks to Microsoft it looks like *every* Windows computer will be infected with spyware in the next veriosn of Windows.
    • That's not a bug, it's a feature.
    • Well duh! It's called Windows ;)

    • Claria and HomeSec (Score:5, Informative)

      by Tackhead ( 54550 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:11PM (#13004370)
      > An thanks to Microsoft it looks like *every* Windows computer will be infected with spyware in the next veriosn of Windows.

      Gator, er, Claria, is not spyware.

      Gator CPO at the Department of Homeland Security [slashdot.org].

      D. Reed Freeman, the "Chief Privacy Officer" of Claria Networks (formerly Gator), the creators of the pervasive spyware package GAIN, has been appointed to the Department of Homeland Security's "Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee"

      Legitimized by Microsoft and with representation on HomeSec DPIAC, Gator is now officially securityware, Citizen!

      And if you've got some sort of problem with that, take it up with the boss, namely HomeSec's Chief Privacy Officer. She's none other than Nuala O'Connor-Kelly [com.com], formerly of Doubleclick.

      What's with the head-on-desk-thumping motion? I'm not demented enough to make this shit up!

  • Ah nevah though' that purpled monkeh wha' read my emails coulda ever stoled mah password!

  • I thought I was immune too (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ReformedExCon ( 897248 ) <reformed.excon@gmail.com> on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:52AM (#13004136)
    I run a firewall, I have my operating system completely patched, and I never open attachments from people I don't know.

    Imagine my surprise when I ran AdAware just today and discovered 7 infections.

    The real problem is not that there is a bunch of computer illiterate grannies opening every attachment they receive. While that is a factor, the real vulnerability is in the hubris of "power users" who think they can't get infected because they take all the precautions. But as I learned today, sometimes even that is not enough to be completely protected.

    • Re:I thought I was immune too (Score:5, Informative)

      by MoonFog ( 586818 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:55AM (#13004175)
      How many were cookies? The only adware I've really got were tracker cookies from doubleclick etc. Those are recognised as infections in AdAware, and they are easy to get if you forget to turn off cookies.
      • Or you can just ignore them. They don't inherently do anything to your computer, they're just used for tracking purposes, which a lot of people probably don't like, but are generally not used for nefarious purposes (but are used by bastard marketers, to pick which kind of adds they want to display to you, by what your interests are).

        -Jesse
        • Yeah, my point was that they come up as infections in AdAware. I use the cookie handler to block known tracker sites such as doubleclick, but I allow regular cookies. A couple of tracker cookies can off course still get through, but it doesn't bother me that much.
      • Cookies are far too useful to turn off. And they are mostly harmless anyway.

        -matthew
    • and they are inert and only serve to preserve any state information on the site you were visiting as you were visiting it.

      Cookies are inherently safe since they couldn't send any run-time state information that the browser didn't have access to.
    • A "Power user" on windows? That's a laugh.

      Linux: No spyware. No adware. No viruses.

      Do you know why sex exists? It exists to mix our genes up so that we are not all clones of one another, this is so that bacteria, viruses etc can't wipe out the entire race in one fell swoop. Finding a mate and having sex became less hassle than trying to fight off all the diseases out there trying to kill us. And we all know what a hassle finding a mate and trying to get laid is.

      Monocultures are *perfect* for the spread o
      • The only reason you do not have spyware or adware or viruses is because Linux is relatively unpopular.
        • C'mon thats a lame excuse. Also it really dosen't address the Monoculture commet above. Until the monoculture is addressed using Linux IS statistically safer.

          Also people don't normally surf the net logged into their Linux boxes as root, but do surf as administrator almost all of the time in Windows. The user handling in Windows has always been a vulnerablitity. Windows is only now staring to move past its multi user bolted onto a single operating system design. And in so many of their operating system
        • No, you are incorrect. It is one of the reasons but not the only reason by any means. It is different and writing software to run on different systems is difficult.

          This is the same reason viruses don't infect everyone, each person is different, the viruses code isn't as effective on different people and the spread is slowed or halted. Exactly the same effect is possible within computer systems.

          • It doesn't really make much sense to disagree with someone, and then prove your point by backing up that which you disagree with.

            Very strange really.

  • We cluck our collective tongue and think that we'd never be so stupid, but this is a major problem that plagues personal computing.

    One small but not insignificant piece of the problem is just that, the attitude among techies that if only the "lusers" would stop being so stupid, they wouldn't have so many problems.

    1. they really aren't as stupid as we accuse them of being
    2. most of us techies probably would have to admit to an infection or two ourselves, that with our extensive knowledge and background
    3. the world of malware is incredibly aggressive at staying ahead of the defensive curve.

    I've predicted this before, I'll stand by the prediction, (unless there are quick, effective, and transparent solutions) people eventually will become so fed up with this they will collectively begin to unplug (not necessarily a bad thing) and move on. I have in the last few years established my uneasy peace with Microsoft Windows on my dual boot machines now that XP has reached reasonable stability, but have gotten to the point where I rarely go there anymore because it has ceased being a "boot into" endeavor and instead is almost always a boot, then reboot, and sometimes yet another update and reboot. So much for transparency. I have programs I like to use in Windows I've actually begun to offset by creating my own similar linux functionality (thank Goodness I can code) just because I can't stand the 15 minute preamble to getting up and running in Windows.

    On the other hand, my Dad, whom I've spent countless hours coaxing and helping learn Windows and how to use his computer called the other day and said he had disconnected it, and didn't care to ever use it again. I can't blame him.

    • I'm going to agree in part with that. First:

      Disagreements:
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers. - Most of them are not as stupid as we accuse them of being but dear Lord are some of them ever close.

      Stupidity and Ignorance are two different things. I'm noticing more and more that when I try to talk to someone I know about keeping their machine clean of spyware and ads (i.e. don't run IE) they either ignore it or just refuse to listen because they "aren't a hacker and don't kno

  • WTF? (Score:3, Funny)

    by rerunn ( 181278 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:52AM (#13004140)
    Malware?? I thought the porn popups were a feature!!

  • No spyware, malware (Score:5, Funny)

    by Krankheit ( 830769 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @11:55AM (#13004174)
    I have no spyware or malware on my computer. I only download good programs, like Bonzai Buddy and smilies for my Outlook Express. When I am not using my computer, and while I am using my computer too, I let my computer send out e-mail and perform security audits on other Microsoft Windows computers! In exchange, I get free, unlimited access to special money saving offers for products from many reputable companies, such as Pfizer.

  • IMHO (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ironicsky ( 569792 )
    Quote: Yagu
    people eventually will become so fed up with this they will collectively begin to unplug (not necessarily a bad thing) and move on.
    Definately not! If all the idiots on the internet would simply unplug it would
    • Free up bandwidth for the rest of us
    • Reduce the risk of DDoS attacks on major sites
    • Free up tech support people to do real things other then troubleshoot spyware

    Honestly, I believe you should require some sort of license before operating the internet. You need a license to dr

    • If all the idiots on the internet would simply unplug it would...

      Amen brother. I've been waiting for this to happen since 1986...

  • Let's face it (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Arthur B. ( 806360 )
    People ain't up to the task of using a computer. Most people are frightened, they have no idea what's going on... they merely repeat cryptic memorized sequence of actions to do everyday tasks but they are just not "getting it". Sad news: this is unavoidable, a gap is going to widen between people. Earlier "breaktrhoughs" in technology didn't need much understanding... take the wheel. But the automobile has been around since a century and people still can't drive ! Ever wonder why plane is safer than road ?

    • True... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Otto ( 17870 )
      People ain't up to the task of using a computer. Most people are frightened, they have no idea what's going on... they merely repeat cryptic memorized sequence of actions to do everyday tasks but they are just not "getting it". Sad news: this is unavoidable, a gap is going to widen between people.

      After dealing with this sort of problem for years, my conclusion is that there are two types of people in the world:
      a) Those who need instructions and learn new things by learning those instructions, and
      b) Those

  • ...not to mention the ones who don't even know (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fhknack ( 104003 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:04PM (#13004269) Homepage
    That's 43% of the folks surveyed who know they've been bitten. I'd guess there are at least half again as many who don't know that their IE keeps taking them to that new "search screen" because of something they downloaded.

  • Spyware & Windows (Score:4, Informative)

    by Krankheit ( 830769 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:04PM (#13004277)
    I personally run Debian Linux as desktop OS on my desktop machines, and the *BSDs on my firewall and server machines and entrust my source backup to the FreeBSD machine with NFS, but it is not hard to have a Windows machine that is spyware free. I have my grandparents, non computer savvy teachers, and many relatives who call me "computer whiz" (which is annoying) setup with Firefox and a software firewall (I'm not going to setup an OpenBSD machine to firewall unless they give me more than four litres of Mountain Dew) and they have no problems. They all run Windows {XP, ME, 2000, 98} without problems. With Firefox and gmail, they have never complained about the computer "being slow" or "crashing alot" now. This is a simple solution that ISPs like Adelphia should solicit to customers, instead of blooding blocking ports to "protect" less competent users, and annoy the rest of us like me. These teachers and relatives are soliciting Firefox, gmail, and a software firewall to all their contacts.

  • The "Trust Gap" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by digitaldc ( 879047 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:09PM (#13004339)
    "There is a trust gap,'' said Douglas Sabo, a member of the board of directors for the National Cyber Security Alliance, which did that study. Consumers believe they are safer than they actually are, he said.
    Wow, what insight!!! You could apply this statement to how people relate to today's government, media and advertising.
    The bottom line is that people need to be vigilant about security in whatever they are doing. The computer software manufacturers need to stop spyware and adware as a built-in feature, not as a free download from an obscure website. But then again, who is profiting from all this spyware and adware? Most likely it includes some of the same people who are trying to stop it.
    It does provide a need for tech workers to fix these problems ---- as its only bright side.

  • I just don't get it (thanks dog) (Score:3, Interesting)

    by crovira ( 10242 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:09PM (#13004344) Homepage
    At home I use slackware and OS X (and a well firewalled, FireFox-ed and Thunderbird-ed Win2k box,) but I have witnessed the people at the bank where I am consulting go nuts whenever one of their machines get infected.

    A consultant got banned after his laptop got infected from a connection at a hotel while getting his mail and some crap got through when he connected to the bank.

    There are over 20k boxes at the bank and they take a bird if any of them would ge anything that would behave like spyware. They might monitor your keystrokes but they would hate like hell if somebody else did it. Its their equipment after all.
  • Sixty percent said they would have paid for the software if they knew it came with adware.
    So they would pay for software that comes with adware huh? I guess I don't understand. Why pay for adware when you can get it for free?

  • Non-techies don't care (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jb.hl.com ( 782137 ) <joe@[ ]-baldwin.net ['joe' in gap]> on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:11PM (#13004369) Homepage Journal
    My experience is as follows.

    My mother got a new PC about Feb last year, it had XP installed on it (not by me) and since her Internet access would be coming through my PC through NAT, I asked her to install Mozilla on it to stop her getting malware. She immediately told me she didn't want "any of that Linux crap" on her PC.

    Fast forward a couple of months. She was complaining about, among other things, porn popups and the fact that her PC was slowing down to a crawl. She and my brother had installed, among other things, lots of casino programs, Kazaa and had been using only IE to browse the web. A quick scan with Ad-Aware revealed 1000 infections. This time I set Ad-Aware to run a scan at every system startup, removed access to IE and told her to use Firefox. This time, she went schizo and I had to shout her down and get someone else involved to point out to her that using IE was a bad thing.

    Normal users don't care. End of.
    • If someone won't follow your advice, whoever they are, then you can't (and shouldn't) help them.

      The web browser is only half the problem. The fact that people will happily run any .exe they get their hands on is the other half. While I think that MS has to take most of the blame for the current situation of Windows's security, teaching users a bit of common sense can go a long way.

      You're absolutely spot on about normal users not caring. They'll happily let their system turn into a spyware-infested zombie,
    • Why help her? Sounds like she has other issues besides computer ignorance...

    • Re:Non-techies don't care (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ratboy666 ( 104074 ) <<moc.liamtoh> <ta> <legiew_derf>> on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:40PM (#13004715) Journal
      So your Mom went to the trouble of downloading and installing 1000 programs?

      Wow, that's industrious, and she should be commended.

      Ignore it, and get on with your life. The CORRECT answer is, as always, that computers just get old, and slow down. There are SPECIALIZED shops that can give them a tune-up, and you don't have the equipment.

      Keep repeating that. You KNOW you can't win this battle.

      Ratboy.
      • Odds are, she installed a couple/half dozen programs. Some of the adware out there will set itself up almost like a mini distribution server, and install everything else under the sun.

        ie: install program A. A installs B, C, and D. Each of those install 4 other programs. Repeat ad nauseum.

        The rest of what you said, however, is spot on. I've stopped giving free technical support to friends and family who think they know better than me. If you ask for help, then ignore that help, you're on your own. Fortunat

  • BBC news version (Score:2, Informative)

    by richardablitt ( 897338 )
    BBC news have also run a similar story recently.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4659145.stm [bbc.co.uk]

    Also says that 90% of Americans have changed their surfing habits, so it can't be all bad...

  • welcome? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Spy der Mann ( 805235 ) <`moc.liamg' `ta' `todhsals.nnamredyps'> on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:16PM (#13004433) Homepage Journal
    If anyone here dares to welcome our new spyware overlords, I'll revoke his geek license and kick his first post to where Soviet Russia welcomes YOU!
  • First off, I love Linux, have been using it since '99 (SuSE, RH, FC, SlackWare), still use it constantly, am part of a local Linux users group, etc;
    HOWEVER, I'm sick and very tired of many posters here on /. acting as if the use of any MS product or platform is somehow a cardinal sin and an open invitation to get \cr@cked\.

    Give me a freekin break. First off, I agree that Windows is less secure than Linux out of the box. But with the proper configurations and preparations (which I won't go into becaus
    • This article is not about how if you know how to tweak the registry, access the advanced administrator options, configure the firewall and download the correct (non-malware) 3rd party applications (web browser, mail client, anti-spyware and anti-virus) then Windows is secure.

      We are talking about people that don't even know what half of those words mean. Is a default Windows install good enough for them to be able to keep their machines clean?
  • although they don't necessarily want the adware.

    That seems to infer that there is a group of people that do want it.
    • That seems to infer that there is a group of people that do want it.

      That would be the people that created it...
    • Ooh Oooh me me! I want it! It will be like my computer is talking to me! After all its Bonzo buddy so he must be friendly!
      And all those popups, its like a big game where you get to try and close the windows faster than the computer can display them! I got 50 today but am hoping to beat that score tomorrow. Also this nice girl called Jenny says she wants me, but I've been having problems with my computer and can't get online to talk to her.

  • $129 to fix (Score:3, Insightful)

    by MrToast ( 789068 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:18PM (#13004468) Homepage
    Well of course it costs $129 to fix. That's the price of Tiger. Duh.

  • Pffft.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sandman935 ( 228586 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:20PM (#13004494) Homepage
    If a company does it, it's called malware. If one of you did it, it's called a virus and you'll be prosecuted.
  • I'm pretty sure the actual percentage of adware/spyware infected users is well above 59%. The question is, do they notice it? Probably not. I would figure the percentage is closer to 90% for regular Windows internet users.

    -matthew
  • Since I didn't want to spend time cleaning my friends and family members' machines the mac mini made it perfect for me. I made my sister switch to a very inexpensive mac and voila.
  • because of non-standardization issues etc, but malware isn't - and likely never will be - a problem for Linux.

    Windows may be user-friendly, Mac OSX is a looker, but most Linux distributions have a good mix of what's important and are generally impervious to the datamining, spyware tricks out there.

    Maybe we should appreciate what's so good about Linux (for a change).

  • Malware - Love it AND hate it (Score:4, Informative)

    by retro128 ( 318602 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @12:40PM (#13004714)
    One one hand, spyware is some pretty evil stuff. There are little weasel programs I've spent quite a bit of time trying to get out of systems.

    On the other hand, I get paid to do that. I just did one small company with 5 computers that was literally shut down because they couldn't do anything on their systems. Spyware is a problem on just about every single "joe average" computer that I have seen lately. The problem, of course, is going to get worse as long as Windows continues to allow users to run with privileged access by default.

    I don't feel like going into a Microsoft rant - I'm sure it would be preaching to the choir anyway. I would like to share effective tools in my warchest for cleaning out spyware -

    Ad-Aware [lavasoftusa.com] - My favorite anti-spyware program right now. Gets about 95% of baddies.

    HiJack This! [spywareinfo.com] - Cleans up anything that Ad-Aware may have left behind. It scans all startup regkeys, services, and BHO IE extension keys and lets you select which ones to nuke. BE CAREFUL, it lists both the good and the bad. If you don't know what a process is, google for it before you remove its key.

    There are many other useful tools on this download page as well, like LSPFix. This program will fix the mess left by programs that mess with your TCP stack, such as New Net, [cexx.org] whos manual removal can disable your Internet access completely.

    Pocket KillBox [bleepingcomputer.com] - You know those processes that come back from the dead after you kill them? Can't delete the EXE because it's locked in both normal and safe modes? Pocket Killbox is what you need. If it can't delete the file outright, it can temporarily end the Explorer task and try it that way. If that doesn't work, it can use Windows' replace-on-reboot function to swap the EXE with a dummy file on the next reboot. Very handy for getting rid of the most nefarious of processes.

    Spyware Blaster [javacoolsoftware.com] - Pre-emptive spyware prevention. The interesting thing about this program is that it doesn't remain resident in memory. Instead, it writes files and regkeys to your system that prevent the spyware from installing. Adding and removing protection can be done in one click.

  • The strange thing about this article (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sloppy ( 14984 ) on Thursday July 07, 2005 @01:01PM (#13004981) Homepage Journal
    What's funny about this article, is that it does not contain the words "Windows" or "Microsoft".

    How can someone "report" (I use that word loosely) on this problem and tiptoe around the huge elephant in the room? In spite of the overall fraction of users that are having problems, spyware is not normal. It is almost entirely contained within one single very specific homogenous portion of the population. To say that computer users suffer from spyware is like saying that Sol 3 lifeforms suffer from tobacco mosaic virus. Yes, it's technically true if you want to get pedantic, but it's hard to believe that a "reporter" (*cough*) could so egregiously overly-generalize unless they intended to mislead.

  • Fear of spyware changing online habits (Score:3, Informative)

    by yagu ( 721525 ) <yayagu@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Thursday July 07, 2005 @01:10PM (#13005090) Journal

    For those interested, here is another article [nwsource.com] just popped up in the Seattle Times [nwsource.com] on the very same thing. I think the claims on "reaction" to spyware are a little more gentle (e.g., being more vigilant... what the heck is that?, and what added benefit does it really bring?). Regardless, enjoy... it's a good enough read to take a look.

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