Sony Exits US Handheld Market 246
10999 writes "Today Brighthand reports that Sony will no longer develop and sell Clie handheld models to the United States market.
Most certainly that means no more Clies for Europe, too."
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Sony Exits US Handheld Market
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"What man has done, man can aspire to do." -- Jerry Pournelle, about space flight
what a pun (Score:4, Funny)
Palm Numbers (Score:5, Informative)
Worldwide Handheld Marketshare 2003
1. palmOne 40%
2. HP 22%
3. Sony 14%
4. Dell 6%
5. Toshiba 3%
6. All Others 15%
Best Selling SKUs (Oct - Dec 2003 US Retail)
Rank Model % of Total
1. palmOne Tungsten E 19%
2. Sony Clie SJ22 13%
3. palmOne Zire 21 10%
4. palmOne Zire 71 7%
5. HP iPaq 1945 (PPC) 6%
6. palmOne Zire 6%
7. Sony Clie TJ25 6%
8. palmOne Tungsten T3 4%
9. HP iPaq 2215 (PPC) 4%
10. palmOne Zire 21 Limited Ed Bundle 3%
It's not likely they were having Problems selling them, they were the number 2 PalmOS Based PDA seller, and The Number 3 Overall. They also had the number 2 and 7 best selling PDA.
Maybe they were expecting to sell more than this, or maybe most of those sales are outside the US.
Re:Palm Numbers (Score:2)
Re:Palm Numbers (Score:3, Interesting)
NO ONE is making money selling PDAs. Combine this with a SHRINKING market, and why would any sane company want to keep shipping PDAs? At this rate, the entire PDA market will be gone in 3 years... (To be replaced by smartphones and palmtop XP computers.)
Dumbasses (Score:5, Insightful)
Now I have to wait for Palm to come up with something comparable.
Re:Dumbasses (Score:5, Insightful)
Once again, people seem to be forgetting that Sony doesn't cater to the "one percenters" here on slashdot. The fact of the matter is that Sony probably put a lot of money into researching this decision. I bet that they've found that most of the market will be going into PDA phones and the like.
If you haven't worked in an enterprise environment, then you haven't witnessed the dominance of Blackberries [yahoo.com] as of late. This is the future. Combined with Intel's upcoming personal server [com.com], people will have a "local replica" of all of their data to take with them. As they say in Soviet Russia, "the PC will log onto YOU". It won't matter if it isn't your PC - as long as it is "digital briefcase" compliant, it will wirelessly recognize your personal server and give you the option to log into your data set.
Nice!
Re:Dumbasses (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, the convergence from PDA to phone and back again is not without its detractors... [theregister.co.uk]
Re:Dumbasses (Score:5, Interesting)
I want a screen that's as close to paperback book size as possible, and either no built-in keyboard or a fold-over clamshell design with a good size built-in keyboard. Also, it has to connect to OS X and Linux, and not require purchase of Microsoft software. 802.11b and Bluetooth are also big pluses.
I don't want a PDA phone because I want a PDA screen that would result in a phone that's way too large. I just don't get the whole PDA phone thing, in fact. I want my phone to be smaller and my PDA screen to be bigger--fairly basic incompatibility with PDA phones and BlackBerry devices there.
Re:Dumbasses (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Dumbasses (Score:2)
Most PDA's are used as nothing more than glorified address books. Integrating that functionality into a phone means one less device to carry around and forget to recharge. I have to agree with the size though. A large screen really isn't necessary for phone functionality. If only someone made a regular sized cellphone that could synch with the PalmOS phone book. And no, the Treo is too wide.
Dumbasses? Really? Maybe that's YOU! (Score:2)
Maybe for you a PDA is a glorified address book, but some people actually use them for something at work. For example, I use mine to play solitaire at meetings while looking like I'm taking notes. That, and to sync with Outlook to be reminded of when those meetings are. Isn't this what everyone uses PDAs for???
Re:Dumbasses (Score:2)
Find me the device above for about that price, and I'll buy it on the spot.
--D
why carry more than one thing? (Score:2)
Why carry (and recharge every night) two pocket-size electronic devices when you can carry just a single one that does both?
The way I see it, if you're carrying a PDA around all the time anyway, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to serve as your cell phone also. Yes, it is awkward to hold a big flat brick of a PDA up to your ear, but that problem's resolved easily enough with a $9 hands-free earpiece.
Re:why carry more than one thing? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because a PDA should have a screen large enough to be useful. But that means that you may not want to carry it around all the time-- when you go on vacation, for example, or if you're just making a run to the convenience store for a twelve-pack. But of course you do want to carry your phone around all the time. Most phones right now will easily fit in a pants pocket unintrusively enough that you can jog or take a nap on a couch with them on your person. But a usably-sized PDA? Not really.
A headset? What if you're talking to someone about something and you need to pass the conversation for a moment to your friend, standing next to you? Much easier with a traditional form phone factor. What if you're backing up a full PDA and flash card and you want to make a phone call or go somewhere while you wait for the backup to complete?
What about battery life? Generally, you want your phone to be on all the time... but you don't want your PDA on unless you're using it, in order to maximize battery life. You've had a heavy day using your PDA at work and the battery is almost gone, but luckily work is almost over and you're going out with friends right afterward, you just need to call them to arrange a meeting place... d'oh! Battery dead, no phone all evening, unless you go home first and charge your PDA. Or feel free to reverse the scenario.
As usual, the integration of two devices means significant compromises for both.
Zaurus? (Score:2)
blatent u101 self-promotion (Score:2)
Check out my U101 on Linux [mattdm.org] page.
I haven't updated it in a while (I was waiting for Fedora Core 2, and I've been really busy), but it's got a lot of very detailed information, including some nice photos [mattdm.org].
Re:Dumbasses (Score:3, Interesting)
I think I can answer some of this. I'm in front of a computer at work for at least 8 hours a day. I've got a wireless laptop at home that I use nearly exclusively over the two desktops that I have, but I still have a PDA. I happen to have a Palm Tungsten T, so most of my comments may be a bit Palm centric, but you'll get the picture.
My pda is basically an incredibly portable computer with long bat
Re:Dumbasses (Score:2, Insightful)
> Blackberries as of late. This is the future.
Maybe something LIKE Blackberries, but not actual Blackberries. The company is WAY too enterprise obsessed to give a damn about average consumers. If there's a "future" in communications devices, it's more something like the Treo, a combination PDA and cell phone with GPRS or equivalent. In particular, it's got to be an open platform that can take freely or cheaply developed third party software. That's the ONLY way
Re:Dumbasses (Score:3, Interesting)
That's not the point.... The TH-55 in Japan and Europe is virtually identical to the one in the US, with the exception that Bluetooth is disabled. It's not a matter of being a "one percenter," the annoying thing is that they already did the engineering for a fantastic product, released the product in several markets, and then went out of their way to remove a feature for the American version.
The Jap
I won't miss it Sony did not keep promise (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I won't miss it Sony did not keep promise (Score:3, Insightful)
Come back when your products will do what they should.
Re:I won't miss it Sony did not keep promise (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I won't miss it Sony did not keep promise (Score:5, Funny)
And that Vaio spell checker sucks too.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:I won't miss it Sony did not keep promise (Score:2)
Smart companies (if they exist) would have rolled out a handful before getting a huge bulk of them...
I think the real fault here is the "desknote" trend where they put full desktop processors into a notebook, a P4 rather than a P4m. Regular P4s have no dynamic clock throttling and they aren't f
fair amount of turnover (Score:5, Interesting)
Probably going to focus on PSP. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Probably going to focus on PSP. (Score:2)
If so, they're shooting themselves in the foot. (Score:3, Insightful)
If Sony took down their Clie operations in order not to "compete with PSP," that only means in two years they'll be out two revenue streams.
Jon Acheson
Re:Probably going to focus on PSP. (Score:4, Insightful)
It is also likely that the PSP has a far greater profit potential than the Clie too. For the Clie they only get money on hardware and probably not too much since they have to pay PalmOS licensing fees along with competing with a dozen or so other PDAs. For PSP, they will likely lose money on the hardware but more than make it up in royalties paid by game publishers for the system. If Nintendo's success in the handheld console market is an indicator, then PSP could make some major dough for Sony.
As for battery life, etc..., with the Clie people working on PSP, I like their chances. They've got experienced, talented people and a clear target and path laid out by current portable king, Nintendo. So on the whole, I think dropping Clie to focus on PSP is a good bet. This isn't Game Gear again by any means. Sony has far greater resources than Sega ever did and has shown that they know how to fight in the games market.
LCDs? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sony wants to claim a huge stake in the handheld gaming market, and they know that the opening sales of the PSP will be pretty indicative of how the console will do down the line. Big launch will mean big boost in reputation, and then more third parties to develop for the PSP, more sales, yadda yadda.
However, this [reuters.com] article point
Re:Probably going to focus on PSP. (Score:2)
No touch screen.
sony just didn't see the big picture (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:sony just didn't see the big picture (Score:2)
But it seems that Sony does see the big picture, they just don't think it applies to the US! They have the most amazing little portable machines in Japan, in fact Sony has whole ranges that they don't sell in the US.
Perhaps it is something to do with the weak dollar? Maybe the US is no longer profitable for them for top of the range products?
Re:sony just didn't see the big picture (Score:2)
Example: small cars sell well in Europe, but US buyers balk at them. Two different cultures, two different sets of buying priorities. Nothing wrong with that.
-Erwos
Re:sony just didn't see the big picture (Score:5, Interesting)
-
TV out for screen presentation
-
Small and Light (PDA'like)
-
PDA functionality (PIM software)
-
Laptop functionality (Office suite, Internet apps)
-
Wi-Fi
-
USB host/client
-
Built-in, perhaps foldable full size keyboard
-
Decent (800x600) screen resolution
It doesn't need to fit in a pocket, but it should be at least close to that. The Zaurus is the closest thing, and it even runs Linux (which for me is a must). But it lacks a good set of PIM applications AFAIK, and a fullsize keyboard, TV-out and a little more screen resolution perhaps.Now, who is gonna come up with this beauty ?
Re:sony just didn't see the big picture (Score:2)
Re:sony just didn't see the big picture (Score:2)
Damn... great products (Score:5, Informative)
- Brilliant Color Screen
- MP3 Audio capabilities (via separate chip, which saves lots of power)
- Sound
- Small Size, light
- Great construction (alloy back)
- Pretty good package of software around it.
I've been very happy with it.
And shockingly, the nearest Palm equivilant didn't have anywhere near those specs. For more money, less of a product.
I'll miss the sony's in the market. Though I think Palm OS has caught up a bit.
Re:Damn... great products (Score:2)
I also have a T665C, which I like. I got it a while back (over a year) for $279, which was a good deal at the time. It only has a 66 MHz. Dragonball processor, 16 MB RAM, PalmOS 4.1 and a 320x320 (nice as you said) display.
Fast forward to now - I can get a new Tungsten T3, 400 MHz. ARM processor, 64 MB RAM, PalmOS 5, and a 320x480 (very nice!) display, new for $330 or so. I intend to as soon as circumstances permit. (Its
Re:Damn... great products (Score:2)
The Clie's have great battery life as is. But with the audio chip, it's much more efficient for MP3 playback, then running it off the processor. (always have your screen disabled via the little button on the side).
Battery life IMHO is a big part of Clie Life.
Japanese have all the best toys (Score:5, Insightful)
In my recent visit to Japan, I saw loads of technology that isn't in the US yet. Why is this? Yes, I know that it is stuff that is manufacturered by Japanese companies and so it is natural that it should appear there first, but Japan seems to be the best stuff several years before the US. Is the USA not a good market for tech gadgets?
The miniature laptops I saw just rocked, and I can't believe they wouldn't sell in the US.
Re:Japanese have all the best toys (Score:5, Interesting)
Miniaturizes Japanese product wouldn't survive our warranty expectations here in the us.
For an example:
Japanese Consumer: Drops mini-laptop onto concrete and it breaks. He cries, but then buys another.
American Consumer: Drops mini-laptop onto concrete and it breaks. He cries, calls the manufacturer a demands a replacement, gets none, called the Better Business people and gripes. He then procedes to tell his friends that product "X" is a piece of junk. He get his credit card company to issue a charge back.
There's a lot of hiking/climbing gear that never makes it to the US from Europe and Japan for the same reason.
Re:Japanese have all the best toys (Score:2)
Do you know for a fact that Japanese consumers don't have the same type of warranties as they do in the US?
Most Japanese products I have purchased have had a higher build quality than their US equivalents - not only for PCs, but also cameras, cars, etc. I think you're talking out your ass.
There's a lot of hiking/climbing gear that never makes it to the US from Europe and Japan for the same reason.
Or a different r
Re:Japanese have all the best toys (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Japanese have all the best toys (Score:2)
Exchange rate, price sensitivity (Score:5, Informative)
Japanese people are willing to pay a premium for small/lightweight products. Americans are not as willing. Throughout all of Asia/Pacific, people use a combination of mass transit and walking. When I visited Hong Kong, my colleagues were astounded at the 40lb. bag I carried -- a big IBM Thinkpad and every accessory that I might possibly need. Imagine a computer room in a bag. It was somewhat inconvenient to take this heavy computer bag in and out of cabs and the subway, but I did it. Months later, the same people visited me in the US. I said, "Now I can show you why my computer bag is not so crazy." We walked out of my office, down a flight of stairs, and 50 feet to my car, where I popped the trunk and dropped the bag right in. Size and weight of the computer are meaningless because I seldom carry it for more than 2 minutes at a time.
I won't attempt to speak for everyone, but I want gizmos with full features, durability, and low price. Size and weight are secondary. If I lived in Asia, my priorities would be different.
Re:Japanese have all the best toys (Score:2)
The japanese buy evolutionary tech, the rest of the world only wants to buy something that's revolutionary better than their old stuff. Which means that in Japan, they get a higher turn over of
Re:Japanese have all the best toys (Score:2, Insightful)
I wouldn't use the word "outrageous". It's simply the reality that the US cannot be best at everything. HiTech phones from Nokia and SonyEricsson usually appear in Finland and Sweden before they appear in the US. The US is mostly ahead the rest
Battery too small for wireless (Score:3, Insightful)
A full time radio connection (wifi is an example) requires significant power resources.
Handhelds don't have the power.
The small Sony laptops are more appropriate. They have a useable keyboard, and they almost fit in a jacket pocket
Re:Battery too small for wireless (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Battery too small for wireless (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Battery too small for wireless (Score:3, Insightful)
Handhelds are dead! (Score:4, Insightful)
Peace
Re:Handhelds are dead! (Score:2)
Re:Handhelds are dead! (Score:2)
While you're undoubtedly right that this is true for many people, I know several friends who go through cell upgrades often enough *not* to want their personal data on one since it's a pain to do all that migration. That's why 3 of my friends got PDAs - the phones come and go, but the PDAs are both che
Re:Handhelds are dead! (Score:2)
Your friends are obviously not us
Re:Handhelds are dead! (Score:2)
I wouldn't know why people would pay $400 though, I've been using a Palm m100 that I paid $75 for maybe three or four years now.
Re:Handhelds are dead! (Score:2)
Re:Handhelds are dead! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Handhelds are dead! (Score:2)
If your phone has PIM apps like a handheld, a little finger keyboard like a handheld, a small but high density screen like a handheld, and fits in your hand, how is it not a handheld, and how can you point at it and say "handhelds are dead"?
Are they moving to another horizon? (Score:4, Insightful)
Their exit is extremely strange, but until we get more corroborating articles, I'm going to stick to that thought.
Pocket PC slowly winning? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Pocket PC slowly winning? (Score:3, Insightful)
It shows that Sony is ahead of Microsoft in the PDA market. Sony has now caught up with Apple.
Re:Pocket PC slowly winning? (Score:3, Insightful)
In 2002 the better Pocket PC had 32-64M of RAM, one or two flash card slots, and a processor between 200 and 400 MHz, with a 320x240 transflective display. In 2004 the Pocket PC has, what, 64M of RAM, 1-2 flash card slots, a processor between 200 and 400 MHz, and a 320x240 transflective display... and some models have bluetooth and/or w
Re:Pocket PC slowly winning? (Score:2)
Not entirely true. Actually, it was Compaq who made the iPAQs in the first place, then HP bought Compaq and kept iPAQ name and from 2003 all iPAQs are branded under HP and nothing else.
Re:Pocket PC slowly winning? (Score:3, Insightful)
I know, and they put the HP name on the iPaq and abandoned their own Pocket PC, the Jornada... which was a much better design and had come from behind to almost parity in market share with the iPaq when they pulled the plug on them.
In fact the big increase in market share in 2002 that lead to to the Pocket PC finally breaking 20% was due entrely to sales of the Jornada.
the processor power of the Pocket PCs where already enough
A 400 MHz XScale is not
Not Surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
I recently ditched my Palm IIIxe for a Sony Ericsson T616. It isn't technically a "smartphone", but it still has a calendar, to do list, phone book (of course). And it syncs perfectly with iSync over bluetooth.
If you want to see the real future of Sony PDAs, look here [sonyericsson.com].
SonyEricsson P900 (Score:5, Informative)
Exiting the market, my ass! They're just going to focus on PDA/Phone unified devices.
-l
Not surprising (Score:3, Informative)
More features (Score:3, Informative)
Due to the rise of next generation mobile phones (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing beats (Score:2, Funny)
It was stylish, being one of the very first true portables, drew lots of looks (almost nobody had one) - isn't that what mobiles should do - look at all the whiz bang bells and whistles they have now. And it was hackable via they keypad and the access codes.
Turn it on and dial, none of this boot OS advertise Verizon, think for a minute read the phonebook crap with these new fangled phones.
You could even use it for self defense, sure it cost over $20
Re:Due to the rise of next generation mobile phone (Score:2, Insightful)
It is a mistake to assume that everyone wants a phone-pda-camera-mp3 player-fm radio-refrigerator. (Well, not refrigerator.) Too much integration leads to unused features (==bloat) and wasted money. How many people buy Microsoft Office
Not surprising (Score:5, Interesting)
The iPod competitor will fail if they release it in the US. It's too big, it'll cost too much, and basically it has too many features and buttons for the US market.
Re:Not surprising (Score:2)
Steering clear of corporate market (Score:2, Insightful)
Well, that sucks (Score:5, Interesting)
Pitty (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Pitty (Score:2)
Completely blindsided me (Score:5, Informative)
That said, they weren't always the easiest company to work with. Often, the new models would come out so fast that we couldn't keep track of them, and a customer tech support email would be our first indication that something new was available. They had a tendency to keep certain APIs (like their camera API) private, and even their public APIs might be released to developers months after devices had shipped. I don't think a simulator for the TH55 was ever released.
But despite the problems, I'm sorry to see them go. Sony injected an energy into the Palm handheld market that I don't think can be matched by the other manufacturers.
--Stuart
Re:Completely blindsided me (Score:2)
But if you want to develop for Windows CE / Pocket PC / Windows Mobile / whatever, yes, you do need a simulator. It's Windows CE compiled as an application that runs on Windows, just like the PalmOS simulator or, if you want to stretch, User Mode Linux.
And if you're developing Java apps for Symbian, they run inside a Java environment, which really is a "virtual machine," not a native environment.
Yippie! (Score:2, Funny)
PDAs are transitional devices anyway (Score:3, Insightful)
of course i think it's rather sad to see such a well designed line of products come to an end (i personally have a sony clie), but surely sony is aware of the larger issues. the newest coolest thing they came out with was the UX-50, which when i first looked at it, i thought of it as a sub-sub-notebook. it just runs Palm OS and you can't upgrade any of the hardware. for the cost (US$600) you could easily get a bad-ass mobile phone that does all you'd need anyway---and it's a phone.
Sad... (Score:3, Interesting)
Sucks that the competition is gone -- first Handspring, now Sony. At least Palm seems to have gotten their act together on the hardware side of things.
Probably a good thing (Score:2, Insightful)
Market Slump (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd be freaking lost without my PDA. I used a Palm 3 that I was given for a little while, then bought the Visor Deluxe when it came out, and used it until just recently. When it finally died (backlight failed) I dropped $90 on a Clie SJ-22. It's a great little PDA with a very bright white backlight that's on by default, 16meg memory, reads memory sticks, etc. I'll use it until it dies some horriffic death (hopefully in a few years) and get whatever is simple, cheap, highly-reviewed and well-supported.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that people use these things primarily for their original purpose: to *organise things.* The vast majority of PDA users might *like* color screens, mp3 playback, cameras, etc. But when they get to talking about it, you soon understand that they still mostly just want it to keep their lives in order. It's interesting that even many one-percenters on
Re:Market Slump (Score:2)
Re:Market Slump (Score:3, Insightful)
But when they get to talking about it, you soon understand that they still mostly just want it to keep their lives in order. It's interesting that even many one-percenters on /. seem to be the same way. I love new tech just like anyone else, but it's a lot cheaper for me to play with the neat gizmos seperately, and not have my mishaps affect my PDA. Any other thoughts?
My PDA is totally critical, I've got everything in there. While I backup regularly and use iSync to keep everything synchronised with my
They'll be missed (Score:2)
Of course I'l sure this also means that they won't release the API for the Palm OS5 devices for getting sound working properly on these devices, now will it?
They did it before: Sony's first abandoned PDAs. (Score:4, Interesting)
The worrisome thing: after Sony bailed, pretty much everyone else using the MagicCap OS did too. Today, you can't get the OS at all anymore, and you can't even really get a dev environment for it. Hopefully, PalmOS can hang on.
ARR! (Score:4, Interesting)
I kinda saw this coming in the back of my mind though. Look at the last lineup, they've actually subtracted features (like the MP3 player) from the newer models that I consider to be in the same class as the SJ.
They've seemingly fixed that now with a good looking feature rich TJ37, but the 27's were sorta half-arsed.
And I knew something was terribly wrong with the whole line when I saw the UX50. That thing just defies everything about what makes PalmOS functional.
Re:ARR! (Score:2)
[1] I once had a cell phone that died because it was too weak to exist WITHIN an over-ripe pear. Who knew.
I'm worried that Sharp may follow... (Score:2)
I didn't want a Palm because I wanted a more functional mini-computer. I own a Zaurus SL-5500 and was set to buy a SL-6000 except for two problems. Price and the lack of Bluetooth. I would have still gotten one at that outrageous price ($700) if it had Bluetooth. Chances are - if I am in range of Wifi, I have my laptop. I need a PDA when I'm not near Wifi and want to access the net over GPRS cell phone - hence the need for Bluetooth.
Further, the relatively lackluster open source-ness of the project and Sha
No they're not. (Score:5, Informative)
I saw this story on Brighthand this morning and was about to submit it to slashdot, but I decided to check my facts first.
BargainPDA [bargainpda.com] says "Sony has informed us that they will not release any new Clie PDAs this year in the US."
They had a conference call with Sony last week, and Sony made is abundantly clear that this is just a regrouping, they will NOT be exiting the market.
You can probably expect for Sony's next US model to be released with a bang. 'After an x-month hiatus, Sony has decided to revolutionize the PDA landscape again!' or something.
But again! SONY IS NOT EXITING THE MARKET! NOTHING TO SEE HERE! MOVE ALONG!
If this doesn't get me some karma, nothing will :-\
PSP Screens (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:PSP Screens use OLED not LCD (Score:4, Informative)
It's unfortunate (Score:3, Informative)
I for one am sorry to see Sony exit the handheld market.
If you're looking for a Clie bargain now... (Score:4, Interesting)
Bear that in mind before you go hunting for a cheap Clie. If my Palm V, which is almost 6 years old, broke down I still could get it repaired by the manufacturer. But, with that wording, it's very much implied that after the warranty period has run out on the Clies sitting on retailers' shelves right now there will be little or no support from Sony for Clie owners. Caveat emptor.
Re:If you're looking for a Clie bargain now... (Score:2)
abandonment of customers happens all the time in this industry