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Slashback Media Music Security

Slashback: Texasocial, Networking, Attacks 134

Slashback this evening brings updates on social networks, Audioscrobbler, the Social Security-number security breach at the University of Texas at Austin, and more. Read on for the details.

Why meet people in real life? Roland Piquepaille writes "I wrote [Saturday] a column about social-network mapping tools mentioned by Slashdot. Slashdot readers sent me many comments and e-mails about other visualization tools. Here are these new tools, in no particular order: email constellations, Apache Agora, NetVis Module, EtherApe, inGridX, NameBase's Proximity Search, Surf3D Pro and the dazzling KartOO. Finally, a reader talked about another kind of tools, the Visual Thesaurus. This web tool is not about social mapping, but it shows graphical connections between words. In this previous column, "The Visual Thesaurus: What Does it Show About Thanksgiving?," I already explored this very funny tool. Check this new story for more the details about all these tools."

Update: 03/19 00:34 GMT by T : Directly related: Josh Tyler writes "Related to a recent Slashdot posting on social networks is this paper on automatically discovering communities based on email data, just published by our group at HP Labs. We find that simple communication data is enough to identify communities, both formal and informal, and possibly even to identify the leaders of these groups."

Speaking of online community ... TGK writes "Audioscrobbler (which many of us visited the first time it was posted here) has a new site up, and most importantly, new plugins for XMMS and Winamp 3."

From the site, a capsule description of what Audioscrobbler does: "It grows to know what music you like by monitoring what songs you play on your computer. From this information you can discover other users that share some or all of your taste in music."

Feedback is always cool. An anonymous reader writes: "Sudhakar Govindavajhala, co-author of the paper referenced by the Saturday Slashdot article 'Using Memory Errors to Attack a Virtual Machine,' has responded to many of your [Slashdot readers'] questions and comments. His commentary is located at his Princeton CS website."

Another reason that Social Security isn't. GregAllen writes "Remember the recent case of SSN data theft at The University of Texas? A student has turned himself in. In his confession he says that he acted alone, and had no intention to disseminate the information. Maybe this will convince them to stop using SSNs for student IDs." Bonker also points out that "Salon is carrying an AP article that's a followup to the story a few days ago about the mass of Social Security Numbers stolen from University of Texas. Christopher Andrew Phillips is described as a 'fine young man who has never before been in trouble with the law'. Apparently he wrote a program 'to access a university Web site that tracks employees who attend training classes'. Whether or not this was done for illegitimate purposes remains to be seen. As a former UTA student, I'm glad my SSN is no longer in danger!"

What's the state of the device? An anonymous reader writes "N-Philes.com did another State of the GBA Industry Article and Roundtable. Here is the Industry Article, and here is the Roundtable"

Update: 03/19 00:34 GMT by T : And one more presroi writes "Just one week after even slashdot has noticed the new 2.2.24 linux kernel, Alan Cox has announced a new version due to a security issue found in 2.2 as well as in the 2.4 branch. I hope that we all were to lazy to upgrade from 2.2.X to .24 until now :)"

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Slashback: Texasocial, Networking, Attacks

Comments Filter:
  • by lingqi ( 577227 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:03PM (#5540653) Journal
    I *think* there was some precedent on this;

    something about a guy who stole money / robbed a store JUST so that he would go to jail to be away from his wife. The judge decided that since he was not stealing with the intention of theft, he was not guilty and don't get to goto jail. (in the other words, be still under the whips and chains of his wife - which might be a fitting punishment?)

    Could have just been a joke that I took for real, though...
    • Sounds like a joke. Although IANAL, I think with respect to the SSN case there is intent. He intended to illegally access/aquire the data.

      A good example of lack of intent may be running into a hardware store and running out with a fire extinguisher because a car in the parking lot is on fire.
    • Seriously, what law was broken here? If the university left a list of student/faculty names and SSNs on the sidewalk and someone picked it up, with no intent to commit fraud etc., would that be crime?

      Suppose someone from the school administration had memorized everyone's SSN and sat in the student union and would answer questions of the form, "do you know who has xxx-xx-xxxx as their SSN?" If students (or others) asked questions of this form and eventually learned a list of SSNs, would this be a crime? And
      • Seriously, what law was broken here? If the university left a list of student/faculty names and SSNs on the sidewalk and someone picked it up, with no intent to commit fraud etc., would that be crime?

        Well, by going past the cover page, you would have illegally bypassed the access device, and thus be in violation of the DMCA...
    • there is a crime (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Archfeld ( 6757 ) <treboreel@live.com> on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @10:41PM (#5541501) Journal
      regardless of intent, it is called asportation, it involves the physically relocating objects. I am not sure if it covers DATA though....

      Asportation is what they get the smart a$$es in stores who ACT like they are stealing somthing then put it down elsewhere..

      asportation
      n. removal, especially crime of removing property.
      • Re:there is a crime (Score:3, Interesting)

        by swb ( 14022 )
        I seem to recall someone who knows more about this than me (cop? lawyer? misc.legal?) explaining something about shoplifting.

        If you pick up something and walk out of the store carrying it in plain sight and claim it was an accident/oversight, they can't (won't?) charge you with shoplifting since you didn't attempt to conceal it. Apparently the skullduggery is necessary.

        I'm probably wrong, but I've done this before -- picked up something, got to talking or browsing, forgot I was holding something and walk
        • by lingqi ( 577227 )
          (hey, maybe it's a better technique, too)

          slashdot, news for criminals, techniques that work.

          Heck; with all of us adamently defending these kids, when will the feds get the bright idea that slashdot is in fact "news for terroists, stuff that'll get you shot"?

        • you are correct, but you are also implying an actual accident, VS. this guy who knowingly took it but with NO INTENT to defraud, or so it seems on the surface at this point....

          We are all making some huge assumptions based on little to no REAL evidence :)

          BTW I used to be a county sheriff's deputy, in a galaxy far far away...
        • Something similar happened to me: my ex-wife had a yeast infection, so we were looking for cures in a local drug store. It was winter, and I had a long overcoat on. Well, sometime while we were going through all the various remedies, one of them ended up in my coat pocket. We bought the one we wanted, but, when we got home, I found the other one. I sheepishly walked back to the drug store and tried to explain what happened and why I was bringing it back. No one believed that I had brought it back. My
        • At least in Michigan you don't even have to leave the store to be shoplifting. It depends on the store layout, but simply bypassing the register without paying for an item from the store can constitute shoplifting. This is why many stores make a point of placing the register in a position such that you have no way of exiting without definitely passing the register, and there is nothing between the register and the door. (vs. the common "mall store" layout where the register is at the middle or back of the s
  • by garcia ( 6573 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:06PM (#5540674)
    while I cannot *stand* any institution using SSNs for anything not money related (financial aid) it is a near necessity...

    I went to BGSU [bgsu.edu] and we had P00 numbers as our student ID (P001123344 for example). While I remember mine from BGSU the college I currently work for has "student IDs" as well but they are not as widely known (most of the foreign students w/o SSNs know theirs but not many others).

    So if colleges didn't use them MANY people would have problems getting the info they needed b/c searching through 10000 Michael John Smith's is a pain in the ass.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:09PM (#5540692)
      I went to BGSU [bgsu.edu] and we had P00 numbers as our student ID

      That system must really stink!

    • by phorm ( 591458 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:21PM (#5540757) Journal
      So basically, it's OK to use SSN because students aren't smart enough or are too lazy to learn a new PIN. While the PIN seems pretty long, I still see no reason for an SSN. Between phone #, address, etc, you should be able to identify your Michael John Smiths. Being that the identifier given is relatively the same length as an SIN (at least ones around here) - why couldn't anyone who memorizes their SIN memorize the ID.
      For those that can't... put it in your damn wallet on a card or something, because with the SIN they're probably referencing their card anyhow.
      • I work at GRCC [grcc.edu] in the ATC open computer lab. We have 7-digit student ID numbers, and typing those into our sign-in software with a numeric keypad is a heck of a lot faster (and easier) than typing in their name and address. And this really matters when you have eight people lined up to sign out computers.

        But then, their student number is on their student ID card. A physical ID+unique integer is a godsend.
      • I don't believe in it but I am siding w/the colleges. It's the STUDENT's choice on whether they should use only the SSN. It's not up to the school to decide.

        Financial aid still needs SSNs and they are going to be generally stored in the same god damn database as the other information, what the fuck is the difference?
        • "what the fuck is the difference?"

          A lot the fuck is the difference. For example, how are you going to identify foreign/remote students or visiting professors? Your social security number should not be used as an identifier, and smart universities have already implemented some other system. In fact, IIRC, you are not even obliged to give your SSN out.
      • A. I was really drunk and stoned in college.
        B. When I first started, they used SSNs. THEN they switched to some other number the next year.
        C. I don't really care. SSN's are fine with me. I think everyone should have their own unique number to pull up everything from taxes to bank accounts to power bills, etc. I think there needs to be some sort of secondary ID associated with the number though (like palm or thumbprints, ala Identix scanners). Together, they form a, while not flawless, security/id me
      • Phone numbers and addresses aren't IDs. In ten years my SSN will still be the same. In a hundred years my SSN will be the same, even when I'm dead. My phone number, address, etc., won't be the same. My name very well may have changed.

        Now, every institution could give me a unique ID number. They do anyway. That's okay as long as my relationship with the institution is limited and specific, like with a retailer. But a school is a much more extended relationship, with a lot more bureaucracy -- I need

        • You're right about the banks and poor security. Why do they limit me to a 4 digit password for things like ATM and online banking? You can bet that their internal accounts have password policies that would prohibit such lousy passwords.

          When their money is at risk, they spend whatever it takes (how much does a longer password cost, really?)

          When our money is at risk, tough. 4 digits is all you get.

          (I did once have a Merrill Lynch Visa card that could be used in ATMs to withdraw cash. It had a six digi

    • The problem with not using SSN's is the system is already set up for a 9 digit number in most cases. Unfortunately 9 digits is on the upper end of what people can remember [youramazingbrain.org.uk]. So people forget them :(
      • So just start with leading 0s. You don't need more than 7 numbers & people remember that ok (at least I can remember phone #s I use). Hell--if they want something easy to remember, they can assign you your phone # as id. That's what stores use to id you. There might be a few dublicates, but a subtlely changed version of your phone # would still be easy to remember.
      • No problem.

        At Arizona State, they had some students with Social-Security ID numbers, some with 9-figure "bogus" ID numbers (99x-xx-xxxx). At some point, someone must have thrown a fit about using the Social Security number as an ID number. The logical solution was to give people a 99x number if they didn't have it. The solution they chose was to give *everyone* a new number (I think about 10 figures-- 10000xxxxx) For a bonus humiliation point, they call them 'Affiliate ID', like some sort of MLM-spam p
    • UCLA uses a 9-digit unique ID that's assigned to you when either you apply or are accepted, I don't remember which. It's not based on your SSN and in fact has nothing to do with it. My wife just went back to UCLA for grad school seven years after finishing undergrad, and she's still using the same ID number she was using then. Faculty and staff are also assigned IDs.

      All UCLA students, faculty, and staff are issued photo ID cards with the number and their name printed on it. Remembering it isn't a big
    • My College, which will remain nameless, uses SSN as the students' ID-Number, BUT they will let you change it to a number of your choosing if you ask (so long as it is not being used and it is
      I fear no longer after having mine was changed to a 5 digit number!!!
      • Opps, part of what I wrote was cutt-off, so I will try again:

        My College, which will remain nameless, uses SSN as the students' ID-Number, BUT they will let you change it to a number of your choosing if you ask (so long as it is not being used and it is =9 digits). I fear no longer after having mine changed to a 5 digit number!!!
  • by sulli ( 195030 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:07PM (#5540678) Journal
    Didn't someone write a script measuring people's degrees of separation from each other on slashdot via Zoo?
  • scrobbler privacy (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    what steps are being taken to protect the data and users privacy ? hypothetically if a large company offers say a million dollars to use the data how protected are the users who contribute or are they for sale to the highest bidder ?

    or is it a case of when they hand over the cash the project leaders will be rich so who cares
    • what steps are being taken to protect the data and users privacy ? [... is the info] for sale to the highest bidder ?

      What privacy?

      The whole POINT of the service is to tell other users who listen to similar music who you are.

      So execs don't even need to buy the info in a special transaction. Just subscribe a pseudo-user who "listens to the songs" they're interested in, and BINGO! The service gives 'em a contact list.
      • You have a point there. As a public database, said evil conspiring music exec could just click their way through the database and stash the info for themselves.

        You could force people to register and view a EULA, but even still, you wouldn't be able to tell if a company stole your database for there own use.

        I don't really care personally. =o

        If it helps them produce better music, so be it. If it doesn't.. well. I don't buy it.
  • by yozzle ( 628834 )
    We all know that Slashdot has too many dupes. So, do we really need Slashbacks? Most stories that warrant updates are normally posted as dupes (or "updates" in the case of the xpde article) again later, so why keep the Slashbacks? Especially ones that cover completely unrelated topics?

    With that out of the way, I may as well have a valid, on-topic comment. For the SSN thief, wouldn't it just be easier for a malicious student to install a keylogger? I'm sure that someone would think of doing that in alm
  • I can't say I like the idea of having music served up and tailored to my personal tastes... I'd rather go and try new things. Although I'm sure Audioscrobbler helps you do this to some extent, the best way to broaden your musical horizons will always be to talk to other people - even if they don't really share your tastes. On a side note, I love the statistics page - I'm suprised that so many people listen to Radiohead, and it's cool to see that the most popular song ("Karma Police") also happens to be my f
  • Audioscrobbler (Score:5, Informative)

    by joshwa ( 24288 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:18PM (#5540738) Homepage Journal
    Also worth noting: Scrobbler is going open-source.

    See Developer Mailing List [serverbiz.net]

    Sourceforge projects:
    Main [sourceforge.net]

    XMMS Plugin [sourceforge.net]

    Winamp Plugin [sourceforge.net]

    iTunes Plugin [sourceforge.net]

    Hmmmn on balance I should probably tell RJ to consolidate the projects into one and use modules... Ah well
    • Hey :) Glad to see Audioscrobbler got another mention, it's come a long way since the first posting. I kept the SF projects separate as they will be run by different people, eg Russ is resposible for WA3 and Sam for iTunes... There'll be a new "Similar Users" algorithm going live on the site in a few days :) RJ
  • Why SSN? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by saynte ( 659908 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:19PM (#5540741)
    I thought about this for a moment (just one, just one moment) and came to the conclusion that I actually have no idea why an instition would use SSNs (or SINs) to internally identify their members. The university I go to has their own student numbering system and we seem to do fine. It's not difficult at all to remember a 7 digit code that you find you have to write down at least 5 times a week. *shrug*
    • Re:Why SSN? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by stratjakt ( 596332 )
      Makes it easier to deal with student loans, scholarships, and other financial aids a student might recieve.

      Sure, it's easy enough to correllate a student id to a SSN, but some dont.

      The university I went to had our SIN (canadian version of the SSN) mixed in with other 'info', like the semester and year you started, to form a new number. It was possible to take your number and extract the SSN, but much harder to brute force student ID's and get the SSN back.
      • Makes it easier to deal with student loans, scholarships, and other financial aids a student might recieve.

        That's a side-issue (which could be done as easily by storing the SSN in a database attached to the student's record - and not until the first time it's needed).

        The real reason IT departments try to use SSNs: It's a very close approximation to a "unique identifier" - i.e. (with few exceptions) everybody has exactly one and no two people have the same one. So it heads off some problems when one per
    • I'm at Cambridge University, where students get a username consisting of their initials plus a (by now fairly large) sequential number (so John Michael Smith might be jms112), which tends to be a lot more memorable (only 3 arbitrary digits to remember). Students use these as their e-mail addresses and to log in to all lab or library computers, so they're easy to remember from frequent use as well.

      This userID also appears on the college food/rent bill, so I assume they're just using these usernames as the u
  • Think Again (Score:5, Informative)

    by DCowern ( 182668 ) on Tuesday March 18, 2003 @08:36PM (#5540829) Homepage

    "As a former UTA student, I'm glad my SSN is no longer in danger!"

    Depends on how long ago you attended. Most universities keep your record on file indefinitely right along with active students indefinitely. I have a friend who works in the student services division of my university. She tells me that she routinely has to perform maintenance on records of people who graduated 10 or more years ago. You may want to call your uni and tell them to remove you if they haven't done so already.

    • Data of former students *was* accessed. Even if you are a former student, you should check here to see if your SSN is in the range that was searched.
    • In his confession he says that he acted alone, and had no intention to disseminate the information.

      I think that was why he was implying his SSN was no longer in danger, not because of the time since he graduated. If he thought that his record had been removed, he wouldn't care.
    • Re:Think Again (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Fizgig ( 16368 )
      I didn't even go to UT Austin, and they won't leave me alone. I applied to UTA for grad school last year, got in, but decided not to go. But their registrar or someone left my email address in their file when they sold it to everyone. So I get spam from the Austin Jamba Juice, from people trying to rent houses in Austin, from the UTA ACM group, from the UTA book store etc. I can't tell who sold my address, so I can't get off of it. It's very targetted email; it's just wrongly targetted.

      Makes me wonder if t
      • I have the same problem! Fortunately, I gave them one that gets tons of spam anyway. MORE annoying is the telephone and print spam that gets sent to my permanent address.
    • Hows this. I went to register at my local community college. I had done some of the paperwork already, but couldnt remember my student ID#(which isn't the SSN, but they have your SSN in the records too). They asked which address... Turns out my father who went to a different community college(same state) still has his information on file from the early 70's.

      I could understand the military still having records on my father, but a community college?!?!?! thats just silly...
    • One poor sap turned himself in. How many others are laughing away with even more than he got?
    • The hacker was able to exploit the fact that most currently college-aged kids born in Texas have socials beginning with 420 through 480. If you graduated years ago, chances are your social is not in this range.

      -jag
  • by Anonymous Coward
    In the school system I used to attend (I won't name it, but it's a K-12 district), studends were assigned student ID numbers which were recycled when the student left. Faculty members, however, didn't get such a priveledge, and instead were tracked by their SSNs. Although this information was not supposed to be available, I was able to gain access without much work (and I suspect I could still do so). In fact, I have a file on my computer right now (encrypted of course) containing the names and SSNs of ever
    • I was able to gain access without much work (and I suspect I could still do so). In fact, I have a file on my computer right now (encrypted of course) containing the names and SSNs of every faculty member of the entire district as of when I left. This includes janitors, teachers, principals, district administrators - anyone with an account on their system.

      Oh my god, where are your professional ethics?

  • Can't wait to get home and install this.

    Finally a way to find more music I like w/o haveing to download gigs of crap. (Yes, of *course* I own all the CDs for the music I download, you ignorant clod)
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The XPde [xpde.com] (featured recently) website has been down since yesterday. Anyone know why?
    • Re:XPde? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      it isn't down. it's up but returns 403s.

      I'm guessing user error. I've been trying to get a message to them (if they read their logs) by sending GETs for:
      http://xpde.com/your-server-is-fucked
      http : //xpde.com/fix-your/etc/apache/httpd.conf
      http:// xpde.com/or-perms-on/var/www/htdocs
      http://xpde.c om/did-you-just-convert-to-php3?bad-i dea-to-rush-through-QA
      http://xpde.com/really-i'd -be-happy-to-help-fix-th is
      http://xpde.com/low-contract-rates-available
    • Re:XPde? (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      The freshmeat project page also disappeared. Maybe there could be a slashback followup on this project.
  • by rumba ( 70920 )
    I'm having a tough time figuring out what Audioscrobbler's privacy policy is. Is RJ collecting information to sell to marketers? Does this bother anyone that there is no up-front privacy policy? Or is everyone too busy saying geewhiz?
    • Have you asked him? I'm sure he'd tell you. Go post in his forums.

      I would imagine he has no policy. It's a student project for a class he takes at university.

      As with anything.. If you're worried, don't do it. But seeing as how no personal data is collected except songs you listen to: Who really gives a shit? He offers a service, which I think is damned cool. If he makes a couple bucks off knowing that I like to listen to Metallica after my Melodic Trance, I'm happy for him.
      • I posted-- it looks like he'd sell data based on song similarities, but not user information. As long as the information is not specific to the user, then I'm fine with selling demographics.
  • How about something that monitors what music I like and what music I skip past, and automatically generates a playlist linking various songs together? [He listened to X all the way through, but skipped past Y, then listened to Z. However, after listening to Q and P, he would listen to Y all the way through- so when he skips past Q, dont play Y, go to P]

    "mood-based" playlists that generate themselves. Why not?
  • How long till someone takes data from these tools and publishes...

    "Ultimate Internet Seduction Guide".

    Seriously, if it studies our social networks, it could be really useful to people who have trouble forming networks... Study what it says about your own networks, and see where you are weak.
  • That brought back some memories...

    Welcome to TEX, the telephone enrollment exchange at the University of Texas at Austin. TEX is currently scheduling classes for the...Fall...19...92 semester...

  • I went to a fine (*cough*) engineering school. At the time I attended, all Unix accounts (and email addresses) were of the form of [three initials][last four SSN]. Since the first three and the middle two can be deduced (though not easily) from your state and year of birth, this means that there are thousands of student's SSNs that are at least partially out there.

    BTW, Unix accounts were mandatory for a good number of classes.

    =Blue(23)
    • That was true when SSNs were first assigned, but the system has long since started reassigning numbers to new individuals after the original holder died. While the first three numbers generally still do reflect the general area where one was born (or actually, where your parents lived at the time of your birth -- which is not always the same), the second two numbers do not necessarily reflect anything about your birth year.
  • The moral of the story is, when you hack into someone's school and steal their SSNs, you should probably

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  • you think just because you're a former student that your SSN is no longer in danger??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

    Your SSN has been spread around every information source on that campus and will linger forever in some form or another. My SSN is also my student ID at my school (TAMU), and I'm 100% seriously planning to get a new SSN after I'm done with grad school. AFAIK, that's the only way to have a completely clean slate in terms of people not knowing your SSN.
  • From what I've heard, it doesn't sound like he broke any security. He just wrote a script that attempted logins with various SSNs, and recorded successes. The site login was so braindead that it didn't even cross-reference against last name. Unlike a dictionary attack to guess a password, which is given the legal presumption of being private data, he was tossing up perfectly public SSNs. He's apparently also being charged with impersonating another in the commission of a felony, or something like that.
  • About the UT Hack (Score:2, Informative)

    by BurKaZoiD ( 611246 )
    I work at a University in south Texas somewhere within the near vicinity of UT Austin (*wink, *wink, *nudge, *nudge, *grin, *grin, say no more) in an IT department on campus. We've known for years that using someone's SSN was a bad idea, and we've tried time and time again to tell our clients (the departments within our office, and other offices across campus) this, but the business heads mostly turn a deaf ear, and our clients are too short-sighted (or stupid) to think of any way to associate data with a
  • I am a student at the University of Texas and I think there a couple of things that need to be clarified here. First of all, the SSNs that were accessed are, for the most part, not student SSNs, they are SSNs of employees of the University (some of whom are also students). Read the article again, you will notice that he accessed a web site that tracks employees who signed up for training classes. This means that the SSNs are from tax forms and not student IDs. Secondly, UT Austin no longer uses SSNs as st
  • "Assistant U.S. Attorney Matthew Devlin said the investigation is ongoing and that no motive has not yet been established."


    What a relief!
  • The University of Texas at Austin has set up a website in response to this incident: https://www.utexas.edu/datatheft [utexas.edu]
  • I've been doing something similar to this via the online blogging communities at LiveJournal [livejournal.com]

    LiveJournal, like a lot of these online diarie thingys, has a field where you can enter the music you're currently listening to when you make new entries.

    My system takes your username and grabs the most recent 50 tracks you've entered and trys to compare these tunes with the music that other people have entered - if you get a match then it will display some random tracks from that matching users most recent entrie

Remember, UNIX spelled backwards is XINU. -- Mt.

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