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Spammers Using Students as Relays
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:13 AM
from the i've-seen-this-before dept.
from the i've-seen-this-before dept.
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Dangerous (Score:5, Funny)
What's next? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Peanuts (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Crappy Student Jobs (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Crappy Student Jobs (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Flashbacks (Score:5, Funny)
Must... sell... knives...
The whole experience still makes me shudder.
Parent
Re:Flashbacks (Score:4, Interesting)
However, I didn't have to spend any more than $150 to get started (I must have had a benevolent leader).
It didn't take me long to quit. I still don't care for their marketing practices. However, the products are great (more than I can say about Amway's product line). I still have mine 12 years since I got them. They're still as sharp and shiny as ever. I even have an inherited set that's over 20 years old. They're in great shape also.
I'm going to risk sounding like a hypocrite. I say if you never bought Cutco knives, and someone approaches you to buy them, give them a try. Money worth spending. However, don't jump at the first offer. Make it a hard sell for them and get the maximum discount you can. Even offer a single amount, take it or leave it, just slightly below their final offer. You'll get a good set of knives, but at the same time you'll effectively discourage the wayward soul from continuing on that dastardly path. You'd be doing them a favor. There's plenty of youth around for Vector Marketing to continue the practice, just don't allow someone get stuck in it.
Parent
You know you are old when.... (Score:5, Funny)
You know you are old when:
You had to work a real job to get money in college
People refer to the "good old days" and in your mind it was yesterday
There was no World Wide Web when you were in college (unless you count FTP, BBSs, and Gopher sites)
Your final paper in Computer Hardware Design was on the Pentium processor, and you could only find three sources because it wasn't due to be released for another 6 months.
You post on Slashdot recounting how old you are, hoping someone will think you are cool
Parent
I can think of better uses for them (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I can think of better uses for them (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Tracked using MAC address (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting that they tracked the individuals down using MAC addresses for computers in their dorms...
I've never heard of any other Uni having the foresight to record this and it seems like a valid piece of info to have to include in any registration document (as per cable modem setup)
Re:Tracked using MAC address (Score:5, Informative)
(Why yes, I did used to be a sysadmin at a college with a bandwidth hogs problem.)
Parent
Re:Tracked using MAC address (Score:5, Interesting)
Although it was pretty obvious who was using the most bandwith even w/a tool like iptraf.
Parent
Re:Tracked using MAC address (Score:4, Informative)
I really don't remember if they used managed hubs/switches, but I recall it was a fairly trivial exercise to figure out where people were in a dorm by counting the IPs assigned (they had some pattern).
-Jack Ash
(Miguel if anyone else from Tufts is reading)
Parent
Re:Tracked using MAC address (Score:5, Informative)
If you wanted to register another computer you would either have to use someone else's student ID + login/passwd or call up the people for help.
A side note, they were less than familiar about doing it w/alternative OSs that did not automatically bring up the registration page. You either had to use Windows to do it or have them do it manually. I used Windows
Parent
Re:Tracked using MAC address (Score:5, Funny)
A more subtle way is that the college you attend in Cambridge has already implemented this. The only problem with this approach is that all the alumni from Cambridge Universtiy think you're trying to associate yourself with their older and more established college.
Parent
plight (Score:5, Interesting)
Restricting SMTP (Score:5, Insightful)
Gripe about it all you want, but had the uni been forcing all outbound SMTP traffic through their mail server, they would have seen this a great deal sooner.
As for a fitting punishment - if these students live in the dorm, they probably eat at the dorm cafeteria. Tell the cafeteria to only server them SPAM.
Shocking, I say. (Score:3, Insightful)
IMO, colleges should get out of the general IT business all together and contract these services out. They already contract out other things, like food service, landscaping, maintainance, etc. Some departments (CS, etc) obviously may need their own networks, but otherwise it's just a hugely wasteful money pit. Hell, at my university, they spent so much money on useless IT projects that it just boggled the mind -- a lot of the trouble was that they employed fresh grads who would pick up a couple years' experience then skate, so there wasn't enough adult supervision...
Anyhow, back on track: Colleges should concentrate on education and offload these other problems to professionals.
Re:Shocking, I say. (Score:5, Informative)
Colleges do a lot of experimental things because of the large variety of departments with their unique needs. I do not think they should contract out anything, contractors are expensive. Talk about a money pit!
I personally think a university's money would be better spent with a dedicated staff that knows what a university needs and use student labor when they can. It works well. If your university IT department was run poorly, well, that could (and does) happen in any kind of environment, not just acadamia and wont get fixed by hiring contractors.
siri
Parent
Re:Shocking, I say. (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting idea.
When I was a student at Vanderbilt University [vanderbilt.edu] back in 1995-1996, we had a student-run IT department. It was a very novel thing back then, dreamed up by an former student who worked for the school. What they did was give responsibility for some services (Web, mail, FTP, and some development) to student-run teams. These teams implemented these services on Solaris and Linux hosts and were responsible for their maintenance. I believe we were paid as work study employees but the wages were much better than what you could earn elsewhere on campus. I think I made around $9-10/hour.
What was really amazing is how they found around 12 *nix-saavy students in 1996 at a school mostly known for its liberal arts and pre-med curriculum. Somehow, they did. It spread by word-of-mouth and we all just drifted in. It was the ultimate student job.
Chris
Parent
Re:Shocking, I say. (Score:5, Insightful)
The difference, of course, is that you actually owned your blood in college. These students are selling something that they're permitted to use in the hopes that it will make them better and more successful students. It's a vulgar abuse of access, and don't gimme that "I pay X*10^y dollars a year to go to school here" crap. If those kids had to pay for the actual bandwidth they consume they'd be paying a fair chunk of that without all those education value-adds.
What I don't understand is why colleges don't make use policies part of housing contracts (most consider and bill bandwidth as a utility like electricity). Do something stupid or commit some vulgar abuse like this and you're out fending for yourself off-campus. Pay your own damn cable bill...
Parent
Christ I hope not (Score:5, Insightful)
That would be wonderful. Then they could have the network equivalent of the crappy food they serve at the cafeteria. Aaargh.
Also, you mention that the problem is that they only employ recent grads. That's true - but often these kids work at a "hometown discount" while they wait for their gf to graduate or whatever. The college could never afford people as good as their own grads, generally, if they had to pay them what they were worth. If they have to outsource, the cost will skyrocket - or the service will tank. Admittedly, a few adults wouldn't hurt, but the kids usually do a pretty good job. Hell, at our school the permanant hires were paid so little only the braindead took the job. You prayed you got an ex-student to solve your problem if you had one.
Parent
When I was in college... (Score:3, Insightful)
Computer Nerds Gone Wild (Score:5, Funny)
Except instead of making me want to spank myself, I want to spank them.
Can we say expulsion? (Score:4, Insightful)
The kid should be charged the same as the person who put the distributed decryption software, that was all over the news, and expelled.
They got bought cheap! (Score:5, Interesting)
It's sort of like the trend for journalist majors to wind up in PR jobs for corporations doing nasty things. The lure of extra money covers over any hesitation they might have in moving from a supposedly neutral position to one that shills for money.
But $20/month? Man, that's some cheap principles. How about we pay them $21/month to turn against the spammers?
---------
Re:They got bought cheap! (Score:4, Insightful)
Bzzzt! Wrong, try again.
"Did you see the old beat up Ford Escort with a different color fender, no muffler, and a broken windshield?"
Ding! Ding! Ding! We've got a winner! That would have been me.
"The guy that owned the Escort (and I know him well) would have sold his self-respect for a tuna-freakin-fish sandwich. That guy had LESS than $20/mo for food, toiletries, and beer. You wouldn't survive a week in that guys shoes. $20/mo means another case of mac-n-cheese."
No excuse. You find other ways of making money rather than blatantly leeching off society and contributing to a problem that is despised. If you sell out for a price, regardless of circumstances, it means you sold out. Some people hold their integrity in high esteem and will find some other way to make the necessary money.
-------
Parent
Re:They got bought cheap! (Score:5, Funny)
H.L. Mencken was at a high society function and speaking with one of the grande dames of society. After some initial witty small talk, he asked her "Madame, would you sleep with me for a million dollars?"
Much laughter later, she agreed.
"Madame, would you sleep with me for one dollar?"
The dame was grievously offended and asked Mencken what she thought she was--some whore?
"Madame, we've already established that you're a whore," he replied. "Now we're just dickering about your price."
Parent
Re:They got bought cheap! (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, gee, that excuses everything! I see the light now! After that guy broke into my friend's apartment last year and stole all his electronics, I should've excused him too because he was jobless and living in government housing! After all, I "wouldn't have survived a week in that guy's shoes," now would I?
You know what I did in college when I needed money? I got a freaking job; that's what I did. I spent my days sitting at a desk in a computer lab checking student IDs for $5/hour. I didn't throw in with parasites to get by.
Those students did sell themselves cheap. They could've gotten a real job, but instead they decided to let the bottom-feeders of the Internet take advantage of university resources so that they could get a small token sum of money without having to do a damn thing. They whored themselves out probably because they were too damn lazy to actually try to hold down a part time job while in school. As someone who worked for my food, I have absolutely no sympathy for them. They should be kicked out of housing and maybe even expelled for abusing the university network at the expense of others.
Parent
Money for using the computer (Score:4, Interesting)
What does it matter... (Score:5, Interesting)
--Mike
Oh, me, me, pick me! (Score:4, Funny)
spam at all! In fact, I would do it with a full
satisfaction of doing a valuable service to the
community! Please, pretty please, pick (and pay)
me to be your relay!
WBR / lastberserker
.
.
.
[...of course I won't detail on _where_ I would
relay your spam, but what's the matter - noone
would miss it anyways...]
Students selling information (Score:5, Interesting)
The only way I can think of is if someone used finger @ on the machines in the department and then stuck the username with the machinename.
As far as I am aware the finger@ is blocked to people outside the department so I am starting to suspect that some students are behind this.
Especially as the spam is for local companies.
Re:Students selling information (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.google.com/search?q=cb%40cs.man.ac.u
Moral: Put your email address ANYWHERE on the 'Net and you'll get spam.
Parent
...but they could be making $50/hour (Score:4, Funny)
Thank Heavens for Diagrams! (Score:5, Funny)
Follow the money? (Score:5, Interesting)
Which makes me wonder, how do the students get paid? Remaining anonymous is critical to spammers being able to continue doing their thing. How does a spammer actually pay someone w/out being trackable? I can't imagine that they send cash.
The School is very liberal..this isn't surprising (Score:5, Informative)
While it is troubling to know that some of my fellow students abused the policy, it really isn't that hard. Though it pisses me off a little that they used University bandwidth for their little endeavor, the school has plenty, due to massive infrastructure installation in the late nineties. It hadn't caused any issues for the school (nobody I know has complained about a slowdown) so it's my opinion that the fact it's a university isn't a big deal. The kids are entrepreneurs, even if it's in a business I despise, taking advantage of the resources they've paid for. The real question is wether the school will add a clause to the acceptable use policy and start to monitor for spammers. Wouldn't be surprising.
Re:The School is very liberal..this isn't surprisi (Score:4, Insightful)
Are we supposed to believe that university network resources are completely supported by tuition? I would venture (though in typical Slashdot fashion I have no numbers) that there's a certain amount of taxpayer money involved. Furthermore, it's very common for end-user bandwidth agreements to include a clause prohibiting the resale of any portion of a connection.
Parent
Blacklists work (Score:4, Interesting)
This spring SMTP will be restricted to only approved departmental servers. Anyone else gets dropped at the firewall. It's a shame (academic freedom and all that) but really necessary.
Why [insert deity here] Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Frank Grewe, manager of Internet services for the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis-St. Paul, also wasn't surprised. He says the university does not let client machines be used as servers, employs static IP addresses and tracks the amount of traffic going to and from those addresses.
Why track ... just do not allow it in the first place and it will be a whole lot easier. I just do not see a reason in allowing inbound traffic to a static IP address on a campus unless it is a server owned (no pun intended) and operated by the staff. When you allow anyone and everyone to do as they please, all hell will break lose.
I can see the point of some PCs and not others, but it should always be a special case when a PC needs access to it from the outside. This is how most corporate companies run their network. I just do not understand why in most cases all I have to do is 'host -l -t any uni-net.edu' and get a list of hosts to look at and forward my spam on from.
As for the out-sourcing of CS to someone else, I would have to disagree, because it is incidents like this that usually teach people. And when they go on to the corporate world, hopefully, they will remember that they need to lock their network down . It teaches fundamentals, and in this industry, unlike a lot of others and what a lot of corporate big-heads think, it is experience more than education that counts in the long run.
Re:Why [insert deity here] Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Jeez, what an awful road to go down. The very idea that you cannot be a participant in the internet, and provide your own services, is abhorrent. There should be no problem with a student having his own webserver, mail server (as long as it's not an open relay), finger server, or whatever. Solve problems with specific solutions, not these broad, sweeping, castrating ones.
The way of thinking that you suggest, that only "powers that be" may provide services, promotes consumerism, and prohibits the freedom of individuals.
Your suggestions are antithetical to the very principles that the net was built on, end-to-end.
Parent
Message to Spammers: (Score:4, Funny)
I am willing in the utmost confidence and secret to help your with some certain relaying needs. My server does waits idle at my residence in an yet to be disclosed location, ready to relay your messages to the considerate masses. In exchange for your sum of $20 per month, my server will confidentiality flood the Internet with your excellent offerings.
I can personally and utmost attest to guarantee that you messages will pass through entire unaltered, and not be redirected to
I trust you to and maintain the highest level of integrity & confidence in this matter.
--- Ham Nbu Jahir, Supreme Commander of Nigerian National Space Fleet
Re:20 Bucks? (Score:5, Interesting)
Realistically though, profit depends on volume. Some few people probably masterminded the idea, and are taking part-profits somehow. If they skimmed $5 from 20 students with relays - that's $100/month. Still not a lot, but cheap for no work.
Parent
Re:20 Bucks? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
20 boxes? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Unrest is born. . . (Score:5, Funny)
Bucks urgently required. Please post formula.
Parent
Re:Hmm (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, but don't forget that according to the article this guy sold his Uni access for $20/month - that doesn't add up very many pizzas or beers.
My guess is that guy should have sold his connection for more like $200 - $500 per month, or based on the # of mails or something. $20/month is laughable, considering that he now most likely has been forbidden to connect to the University's network with his personal machine and may have some sort of procedural punishment on his University records.
Parent
Re:tufts ip address range (Score:4, Informative)
the most important part (CIDR:130.64.0.0/16) just made my firewall blacklist : )
Did you read the article? The University's network admins have the problem under control. Students are being disciplined, PCs are taken off the network when they are found. Tufts runs a responsible and responsive abuse desk. By punishing an organization that has acted properly, you are undermining real anti-spam efforts.
Parent